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Contracts
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Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-06-07 18:06:58 UTC
I'm just pondering this one. If I create a contract, public, and all it does is ask for money. I get an error message. Why?

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Ben Bernank
The Goldman Sachs
#2 - 2012-06-07 18:15:56 UTC
Because an item exchange contract requires items to be requested/offered. You can request 0 isk while offering one item, but if you reverse it and there's no item to exchange (or request) it won't work.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-06-07 18:18:19 UTC
Ben Bernank wrote:
Because an item exchange contract requires items to be requested/offered. You can request 0 isk while offering one item, but if you reverse it and there's no item to exchange (or request) it won't work.

Just seems stupid to me. And not just by a little bit.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-06-07 20:50:03 UTC
Beggar contracts?

Oh dear.

- Rei
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-06-07 21:02:23 UTC
Aina Sasaki wrote:
Beggar contracts?

Oh dear.

Well being educated in mathematics to the extent of a high school level I see it like this: -

ZERO >< 399M ISK

PLEX >< 399M ISK + PLEX
is equivalent to:-
ZERO >< 399M ISK

What's the difference? And why can you create a contract asking for what you're selling. Or is my mediocre mathematics below par, so much so (as you quite rightly point out) these begging contracts should be disallowed due to logic fail.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Johnny Frecko
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-06-07 22:08:30 UTC
you're asking why the game doesn't allow you to scam further by issueing empty contracts?

Are the scammers that lazy that adding one unit of tritanium too hard for them?
If you're just wondering technicly "why" it's so, a petition will get you better results than here.

It was coded that way. pure and simple. if you're asking for a theoretical philosophical "why", then because it makes no sense.
and yes, it makes sense trading the exact same item in a contract.

why? glad you asked(just stoppying the next "why should this be possible")

if i have a ship rigged and you have the exact ship rigged with different rigs and we wanted to exchange them - The contract would show two exact ships being traded with only the rigs being different.

The game code doesn't distinguish between plex, navy megas or abaddons. It's an item. Just like any other item.
And thus this exchange is possible.
David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#7 - 2012-06-08 02:30:21 UTC
Why would you want a contract with nothing being traded on one end?
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#8 - 2012-06-08 05:58:39 UTC
*wrong post*

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-06-08 06:06:16 UTC
David Forge wrote:
Why would you want a contract with nothing being traded on one end?

This is what I'm asking, if we trade and a single plex (both ways) nothing has been traded other than the cash.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Peri Simone
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-06-08 09:56:09 UTC
The game code isn't playing logic games, it's specifically avoiding empty contracts because they have no legitimate use. If a contract is created with no item listed it's almost certainly a mistake on the part of the player, hence the error message. How is this a problem?
Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-06-08 10:00:17 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Aina Sasaki wrote:
Beggar contracts?

Oh dear.

Well being educated in mathematics to the extent of a high school level I see it like this: -

ZERO >< 399M ISK

PLEX >< 399M ISK + PLEX
is equivalent to:-
ZERO >< 399M ISK

What's the difference? And why can you create a contract asking for what you're selling. Or is my mediocre mathematics below par, so much so (as you quite rightly point out) these begging contracts should be disallowed due to logic fail.


I only said what I said because if it was possible to create a contract where you receive money for nothing, it would be abused royally by beggars and scammers alike. x_x

- Rei
Claire Voyant
#12 - 2012-06-08 10:10:00 UTC
Stop being a cheapskate and throw in that one unit of trit.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#13 - 2012-06-08 20:57:36 UTC
Confused why no one suggested putting exotic dancers in there...
Johnny Frecko
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-06-09 00:20:57 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
David Forge wrote:
Why would you want a contract with nothing being traded on one end?

This is what I'm asking, if we trade and a single plex (both ways) nothing has been traded other than the cash.


I've answered your question.
That is why. Ignoring it won't result in new answers.

Plex is an item.
battleships are items.
you can trade battleships+rigs in contracts(for different rigs for example) -> that *can* happen>
game doesn't care if it's a plex or a battleship
profit.

I'm not sure where you're getting at.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-06-09 00:51:29 UTC
Johnny Frecko wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:
David Forge wrote:
Why would you want a contract with nothing being traded on one end?

This is what I'm asking, if we trade and a single plex (both ways) nothing has been traded other than the cash.


I've answered your question.
That is why. Ignoring it won't result in new answers.

Plex is an item.
battleships are items.
you can trade battleships+rigs in contracts(for different rigs for example) -> that *can* happen>
game doesn't care if it's a plex or a battleship
profit.

I'm not sure where you're getting at.
So it's for trading PLEX that have different rigs installed?

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#16 - 2012-06-09 01:16:15 UTC
There is no reason to take the time to code the system to differentiate between items that could possibly have some difference (same ships with different rigs) and those that could not (PLEX). Are you asking this as a philosopher/logician or as someone that finds the contract system too difficult to scam with?
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-06-09 15:03:30 UTC
David Forge wrote:
There is no reason to take the time to code the system to differentiate between items that could possibly have some difference (same ships with different rigs) and those that could not (PLEX). Are you asking this as a philosopher/logician or as someone that finds the contract system too difficult to scam with?


A high school mathematician who sees an annoying problem where people can create contracts asking for money by trading the same item both ways, but cannot simply create a contract asking for the money. Both of which being the same thing. That and it must be annoying scrolling through pages of bullshit contracts looking for the cheapest plex. I don't buy plex, I'm selflessly thinking of a way to make it easier for others. After all I'm not the only one playing this game.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Johnny Frecko
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-06-09 15:27:48 UTC
So it's hard-coded in the game.
That's how it is.
you don't have to be a mathematics teacher to understand some things are just wrong in life. not only in eve.
And yes, you're trading for plexes that aren't rigged if you want to refuse to understand further.

It has very little to no added value to the community create a very special item list that includes all the items that can't and can be modded or fitted (for example fully fitted ships could have the same problem, although they can be stripped).
ZzeusS
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-06-09 16:34:33 UTC
Free-form Contracts were removed Tuesday, December 1, 2009.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-06-10 06:48:18 UTC
Johnny Frecko wrote:
So it's hard-coded in the game.
That's how it is.

Oh my god.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
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