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Golem - cruise or torps?

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Hurtado Soneka
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-06-07 02:58:18 UTC
Wonderin what fellow missioners prefer when it comes to arming their golem, personally am leaning towards torps and using a target painter or is this not the way to do it?
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-06-07 03:08:34 UTC
Hurtado Soneka wrote:
Wonderin what fellow missioners prefer when it comes to arming their golem, personally am leaning towards torps and using a target painter or is this not the way to do it?


The 1337 carebears use torp, most carebears use cruise because it's easier.

Either way, Golem is a notch below Vargur or Mach. Winmatards win. Fly Winmatar. Be a Winmatard.Big smile
Hurtado Soneka
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-06-07 03:16:27 UTC
i know its off topic but whats superior about the vargur? and why are torps harder to use? cheers
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-06-07 03:20:18 UTC
Hurtado Soneka wrote:
i know its off topic but whats superior about the vargur? and why are torps harder to use? cheers


Vargur = high dps high tracking long range ACs, point and click.

Torps takes more work to use due to limited range and shuffling TPs.
Beef Knuckleback
Pawnstars INC
#5 - 2012-06-07 03:21:01 UTC
Game mechanics make torps the optimal solution, though with a 60k range ceiling and unguided missile mechanics, other solutions have been deemed preferable by the community at large (Vargur, Mach, and I'm seeing a lot of Kronos (Kronii?) after the hybrid buff).

The reason torps are preferred is twofold. The first is to make maximum use of the painter bonus. As it's the only Caldari boat with a painter bonus this makes the intended weapons loadout pretty obvious. The second is that while the Golem has a double damage bonus it does not have a double missile HP bonus*. So defender-spewing NPCs will put a dent in your Cruise DPS while still taking max applicable from torps, as torps have more base HP than cruise.

There's also the fact that torps can be used on Stealth Bombers. Cruise missiles are battleship-only and are only viable on a handful of hulls - the Golem is one - just don't expect to do full damage against Serpentis or Guristas BS.


* So far as I know, anyway.
Hurtado Soneka
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-06-07 03:23:31 UTC
hmm thanks youve earned a like, 60k op with torps is a lot less than i remember, actually it makes it a real pain in the ass it seems
Beef Knuckleback
Pawnstars INC
#7 - 2012-06-07 03:28:36 UTC
Hurtado Soneka wrote:
hmm thanks youve earned a like, 60k op with torps is a lot less than i remember, actually it makes it a real pain in the ass it seems


You'll hit 60k with maximum velocity/flight time skills and velocity/flight time rigs using Javelin (low damage / long range) ammo. With t1 or Rage the applicable range is much less.

While there are a lot of missions in which this would indeed be a pain in the ass, there are also quite a few where it doesn't matter as much. The divide is such that even if you do decide to fly a Golem it's probably worth keeping a CNR around for the longer-range missions.

I can't fly a Golem yet (all of my comments are basically a regurgitation of what I've read on the forums over the years), and I doubt Caldari BS will be the first BS I take to V. I do occasionally fly the CNR and various Stealth Bombers, and personally I prefer being able to hit to my lock range with whatever ammo type I have loaded.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-06-07 03:29:55 UTC
Hurtado Soneka wrote:
hmm thanks youve earned a like, 60k op with torps is a lot less than i remember, actually it makes it a real pain in the ass it seems


That's with max skill, precision torps that do less dmg, range rigs, and... assuming that the rat doesn't move. Range will be shorter than that in practice.

Also, npc defenders no longer work after recent changes to defenders.
Hurtado Soneka
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-06-07 03:33:44 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Hurtado Soneka wrote:
hmm thanks youve earned a like, 60k op with torps is a lot less than i remember, actually it makes it a real pain in the ass it seems


That's with max skill, precision torps that do less dmg, range rigs, and... assuming that the rat doesn't move. Range will be shorter than that in practice.

Also, npc defenders no longer work after recent changes to defenders.


got t2 torps for when i used to fly stealth bombers but i think ill take the time to train cruise after reading this
Beef Knuckleback
Pawnstars INC
#10 - 2012-06-07 03:36:33 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Also, npc defenders no longer work after recent changes to defenders.


Uh. Like, don't work at all? Or don't do enough damage to put a dent in Cruise DPS? Or are they finally shooting Civilian Defender Missiles?
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-06-07 03:42:30 UTC
Beef Knuckleback wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Also, npc defenders no longer work after recent changes to defenders.


Uh. Like, don't work at all? Or don't do enough damage to put a dent in Cruise DPS? Or are they finally shooting Civilian Defender Missiles?


Don't work at all.
Beef Knuckleback
Pawnstars INC
#12 - 2012-06-07 03:48:54 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Don't work at all.


Shocked
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-06-07 05:08:28 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Beef Knuckleback wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Also, npc defenders no longer work after recent changes to defenders.


Uh. Like, don't work at all? Or don't do enough damage to put a dent in Cruise DPS? Or are they finally shooting Civilian Defender Missiles?


Don't work at all.


Interesting to know - did this happen at the same time they broke smartbombs not popping missiles? And have they made any comments on whether or not they plan to make those work again or not?

-Arazel
Hurtado Soneka
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-06-07 05:25:39 UTC
can somebody tell me if a target painter is worth putting on a golem if you plan to use cruise missles?
Kalli Brixzat
#15 - 2012-06-07 05:38:22 UTC
Hurtado Soneka wrote:
Wonderin what fellow missioners prefer when it comes to arming their golem, personally am leaning towards torps and using a target painter or is this not the way to do it?


Torps. Always Torps. NEVER cruise missiles on a Golem.

Why, you ask?

Simple: The Golem only has 4 launchers. While the 100% damage bonus makes that effectively 8 launchers, you only actually fire 4 missiles. This is important because with rat defender missiles being as effective as they are - which is very - losing one of those cruise missiles cuts off a full 25% of your DPS. This effectively turns you into a stock Raven. No bueno to have stock Raven DPS output on a 1.5-2B isk ship.

Torps cannot be destroyed by defenders - making your DPS application free of interference from those systems. Sure, Torps have shite range and even worse damage application on anything under BC hulls. Yes, TP juggling and volley-counting is annoying. But none of that makes fitting cruise missiles to a Golem a good choice.

Hope that helps.
Hurtado Soneka
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-06-07 06:04:12 UTC
in light of what above posters have said, defenders no longer are a threat for cruise missles, so if that is the case then it nullifies the point your making, thus making them worth putting on a golem.

So if the thing about defenders is true, would it still warrant using a TP with cruise missles?
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-06-07 06:22:21 UTC
Hurtado Soneka wrote:
in light of what above posters have said, defenders no longer are a threat for cruise missles, so if that is the case then it nullifies the point your making, thus making them worth putting on a golem.

So if the thing about defenders is true, would it still warrant using a TP with cruise missles?

put torps and tps
trust me as a cruise missle user it takes forever to pop some of the tougher ships with them and in all honesty the golem SCREAMS for torps and tps might as well make it happy...

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#18 - 2012-06-07 06:23:38 UTC
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
Hurtado Soneka wrote:
Wonderin what fellow missioners prefer when it comes to arming their golem, personally am leaning towards torps and using a target painter or is this not the way to do it?


Torps. Always Torps. NEVER cruise missiles on a Golem.

Why, you ask?

Simple: The Golem only has 4 launchers. While the 100% damage bonus makes that effectively 8 launchers, you only actually fire 4 missiles. This is important because with rat defender missiles being as effective as they are - which is very - losing one of those cruise missiles cuts off a full 25% of your DPS. This effectively turns you into a stock Raven. No bueno to have stock Raven DPS output on a 1.5-2B isk ship.

Torps cannot be destroyed by defenders - making your DPS application free of interference from those systems. Sure, Torps have shite range and even worse damage application on anything under BC hulls. Yes, TP juggling and volley-counting is annoying. But none of that makes fitting cruise missiles to a Golem a good choice.

Hope that helps.


This is the one post the OP should read and stick to.

A Cruise Golem does less dps than a Cruise CNR and while painters on a torp Golem are a ***** to use it IS the way to go. The real answer is ofcourse "get a CNR and use a noctis for cleanup" as a CNR, on average, completes missions faster while being FAR less annoying to use.
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-06-07 06:26:18 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
Hurtado Soneka wrote:
Wonderin what fellow missioners prefer when it comes to arming their golem, personally am leaning towards torps and using a target painter or is this not the way to do it?


Torps. Always Torps. NEVER cruise missiles on a Golem.

Why, you ask?

Simple: The Golem only has 4 launchers. While the 100% damage bonus makes that effectively 8 launchers, you only actually fire 4 missiles. This is important because with rat defender missiles being as effective as they are - which is very - losing one of those cruise missiles cuts off a full 25% of your DPS. This effectively turns you into a stock Raven. No bueno to have stock Raven DPS output on a 1.5-2B isk ship.

Torps cannot be destroyed by defenders - making your DPS application free of interference from those systems. Sure, Torps have shite range and even worse damage application on anything under BC hulls. Yes, TP juggling and volley-counting is annoying. But none of that makes fitting cruise missiles to a Golem a good choice.

Hope that helps.


This is the one post the OP should read and stick to.

A Cruise Golem does less dps than a Cruise CNR and while painters on a torp Golem are a ***** to use it IS the way to go. The real answer is ofcourse "get a CNR and use a noctis for cleanup" as a CNR, on average, completes missions faster while being FAR less annoying to use.

why didnt you post this before i posted my first one... THIS^^^^ or just use a CNR and dont bother with cleanup

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#20 - 2012-06-07 07:57:27 UTC
Hurtado Soneka wrote:
Wonderin what fellow missioners prefer when it comes to arming their golem, personally am leaning towards torps and using a target painter or is this not the way to do it?


With cruise missiles, the Golem merely becomes an expensive, slightly inferior Raven.

If you don't plan to use the marauders special abilities (including tractoring/salvaging), it makes no sense to fly them.