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Thread Hijacked and Murdered by Trolls - nothing to see here
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Chief Bob
Swine Capitalism
#1 - 2012-06-07 02:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Chief Bob
I'm too lazy to do it myself and also rarely do any mining, but I'm curious if any of you spreadsheet warriors have figured out the isk/hr difference between mining in a coveter post-permageddon and mining in a hulk pre-permageddon with the new spike in mineral prices.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2012-06-07 04:44:45 UTC
Only difference between a Hulk and a Covetor:
Exhumers Skill Bonus: 3% better yield for Strip Miners per level
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#3 - 2012-06-07 06:35:03 UTC
If you're solo mining, you'll also lose some cycles as you'll need to haul more often, with your smaller cargo hold (unless you're jet canning it)

And if you're stupid enough to go for max yield, rather than some tank, I /think/ It's possible to cram 2 mlus into a hulk, and only one on a covetor.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#4 - 2012-06-07 07:54:01 UTC
The CPU Overclocking rigs change that, making it possible to fit 2 MLUs onto a Covetor.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#5 - 2012-06-07 10:00:54 UTC
tbh, you should be fitting a DC2 and a Reinforced Bulkheads 2. It doesn't make you ungankable, but it makes it a /little/ harder to do so (Around 10k EHP).

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Metamonic
Bubbles Bubbles Bubbles
#6 - 2012-06-07 12:40:53 UTC
So back to OPs question:

The Covetor loses the bonus from one MLU 7.83% (down from 9% due to stacking penalties) and another 15% from the lack of Exhumer Role Bonus.

1. Not sure if a second MLU can be fitted
2. Not sure if stacking penalties apply for MLUs

And like Steve Ronuken observes, you lose m3/h by having a smaller cargo hold if you are solo mining
Chief Bob
Swine Capitalism
#7 - 2012-06-07 12:56:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Chief Bob
Metamonic wrote:
So back to OPs question:

The Covetor loses the bonus from one MLU 7.83% (down from 9% due to stacking penalties) and another 15% from the lack of Exhumer Role Bonus.

1. Not sure if a second MLU can be fitted
2. Not sure if stacking penalties apply for MLUs

And like Steve Ronuken observes, you lose m3/h by having a smaller cargo hold if you are solo mining


There's a big difference in mineral prices since the beginning of permageddon.

Trit and Pye have doubled, so in all actuality the isk/hr rate probably isn't that different if you compare a Coveter post-permageddon to a Hulk pre-permageddon. Especially if you are mining with a hauler/Orca.

* edited for clarity
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#8 - 2012-06-07 13:34:25 UTC
one important bit of maths:

It takes a lot less time to pay off a covetor, than it does to pay off a hulk. Blink Hulk isn't 10 times better at mining.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#9 - 2012-06-07 16:26:40 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
one important bit of maths:

It takes a lot less time to pay off a covetor, than it does to pay off a hulk. Blink Hulk isn't 10 times better at mining.


^this

And Covetors are not counted for the permageddon's bounty program. Sure, gankers gonna gank, but a ganker who's in it just for the 100mil bounty might not bother with a T1 barge.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-06-07 17:24:13 UTC
Chief Bob wrote:
Metamonic wrote:
So back to OPs question:

The Covetor loses the bonus from one MLU 7.83% (down from 9% due to stacking penalties) and another 15% from the lack of Exhumer Role Bonus.

1. Not sure if a second MLU can be fitted
2. Not sure if stacking penalties apply for MLUs

And like Steve Ronuken observes, you lose m3/h by having a smaller cargo hold if you are solo mining


There's a big difference in mineral prices since the beginning of permageddon.

Trit and Pye have doubled, so in all actuality the isk/hr rate probably isn't that different if you compare a Coveter post-permageddon to a Hulk pre-permageddon. Especially if you are mining with a hauler/Orca.

* edited for clarity

Mineral prices have not doubled.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Chief Bob
Swine Capitalism
#11 - 2012-06-07 21:01:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Chief Bob
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Chief Bob wrote:
Metamonic wrote:
So back to OPs question:

The Covetor loses the bonus from one MLU 7.83% (down from 9% due to stacking penalties) and another 15% from the lack of Exhumer Role Bonus.

1. Not sure if a second MLU can be fitted
2. Not sure if stacking penalties apply for MLUs

And like Steve Ronuken observes, you lose m3/h by having a smaller cargo hold if you are solo mining


There's a big difference in mineral prices since the beginning of permageddon.

Trit and Pye have doubled, so in all actuality the isk/hr rate probably isn't that different if you compare a Coveter post-permageddon to a Hulk pre-permageddon. Especially if you are mining with a hauler/Orca.

* edited for clarity

Mineral prices have not doubled.


Wow thanks, yes, I should have said increased. Anything else or did you exhaust yourself with that in-depth analysis of my post?
Chief Bob
Swine Capitalism
#12 - 2012-06-07 21:24:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Chief Bob
Just an FYI

The first post on the Hulkageddon V website was posted on 4-7

Pye price on 4-6 Sell 5.58 isk / Current Sell 10.25
Trit price on 4-6 Sell 5.38 isk / Current Sell 6.90

Prices were even lower in the month preceding the first Hulkageddon announcement.

The prices for both minerals have climbed steadily from that point forward.

based on:

http://www.eve-markets.net/detail.php?typeid=34
http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=35

That is a substantial increase.

Now can we get back on topic or would somebody else like to highjack the thread?
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-06-08 00:08:04 UTC
The difference can add up pretty quickly. It's doesn't take long for a hulk to pay for itself.

The real question is, can you keep that hulk long enough for it to pay for itself?

The answer is that it probably depends where you're mining. I'm not sure that mining in a public belt in a hulk has a positive net expected return any more. But it's hard to estimate the probability of being ganked.
Eric Raeder
No Fee Too High
#14 - 2012-06-08 00:28:28 UTC
I'll give up my hulk when they pry it from my cold, dead fin...

Oh wait, this is a space game.

I'll give up my hulk when I see it expanding in a ball of plasma as I scurry away in my pod...


There's more to it than mining more ore. Hulks are a lot tougher than covetors. I don't think a single destroyer flying ganker can take mine before he gets concordokkened, but single dessies can easily take a covetor; heck, some players could probably gank a covetor in a frigate. Ok, so they don't get the goon bounty... they can still loot your strip miners and any T2 modules you put on the thing. Its easy to make a profit, if a small one, ganking covetors, and they can be taken solo, which is going to be much harder to do to a hulk and still make a profit.

And the difference in cargo bay should not be underestimated. Having to clear your cargo bay twice as often may not sound like much of an issue, but trust me, it is.
Ms Bax
Union Of EVE
#15 - 2012-06-08 10:14:50 UTC
Chief Bob wrote:
Just an FYI

The first post on the Hulkageddon V website was posted on 4-7

Pye price on 4-6 Sell 5.58 isk / Current Sell 10.25
Trit price on 4-6 Sell 5.38 isk / Current Sell 6.90

Prices were even lower in the month preceding the first Hulkageddon announcement.

The prices for both minerals have climbed steadily from that point forward.

based on:

http://www.eve-markets.net/detail.php?typeid=34
http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=35

That is a substantial increase.

Now can we get back on topic or would somebody else like to highjack the thread?


Yeah. And I guess the removal of drone alloys and nerf of missions running loot has absolutely nothing to do with the mineral prices.
Roll
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#16 - 2012-06-08 12:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Assuming everything possible is maxed out (inc Rorq boosts) to magnify the difference:
A Hulk pulls in 33.6m/hr of Pyro
A Covetor pulls in 29.2m/hr of Pyro

So the maximum possible difference in income using HS ore is 4.4m/hr.

At the current 230m Isk price differential, it takes 52hrs of mining to make a Hulk worthwhile.



With a more realistic scenario of Orca boosts, a 3% and no Michi's:
A Hulk pulls in 28.1m/hr of Pyro
A Covetor pulls in 24.4m/hr of Pyro

So a more realistic difference is 3.6m/hr

At the current 230m Isk price differential, it takes 63hrs of mining to make a Hulk worthwhile.



Since the differential is a fixed percentage, the lower your income, the lower the absolute differential will be and the longer it will take to make a Hulk worthwhile.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#17 - 2012-06-08 12:17:28 UTC
Hulks make more sense in low/null where you have stronger rats to deal with. you can tank a hulk to deal with pretty much any rat spawn.

Covetors just explode.

In highsec, they make less sense, except for the solo miner (Fewer lost cycles).

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Chief Bob
Swine Capitalism
#18 - 2012-06-08 15:22:36 UTC
Ms Bax wrote:
Chief Bob wrote:
Just an FYI

The first post on the Hulkageddon V website was posted on 4-7

Pye price on 4-6 Sell 5.58 isk / Current Sell 10.25
Trit price on 4-6 Sell 5.38 isk / Current Sell 6.90

Prices were even lower in the month preceding the first Hulkageddon announcement.

The prices for both minerals have climbed steadily from that point forward.

based on:

http://www.eve-markets.net/detail.php?typeid=34
http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=35

That is a substantial increase.

Now can we get back on topic or would somebody else like to highjack the thread?


Yeah. And I guess the removal of drone alloys and nerf of missions running loot has absolutely nothing to do with the mineral prices.
Roll


Sigh.. I know that I shouldn't feed the trolls, but sometimes its hard not to point at sheer ignorance...

Please tell me where I said that the increase in mineral prices is entirely due to Hulkageddon...

Can't?

Try not to be a schmuck... thanks
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#19 - 2012-06-08 15:30:19 UTC
Chief Bob wrote:
Ms Bax wrote:
Chief Bob wrote:
Just an FYI

The first post on the Hulkageddon V website was posted on 4-7

Pye price on 4-6 Sell 5.58 isk / Current Sell 10.25
Trit price on 4-6 Sell 5.38 isk / Current Sell 6.90

Prices were even lower in the month preceding the first Hulkageddon announcement.

The prices for both minerals have climbed steadily from that point forward.

based on:

http://www.eve-markets.net/detail.php?typeid=34
http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=35

That is a substantial increase.

Now can we get back on topic or would somebody else like to highjack the thread?


Yeah. And I guess the removal of drone alloys and nerf of missions running loot has absolutely nothing to do with the mineral prices.
Roll


Sigh.. I know that I shouldn't feed the trolls, but sometimes its hard not to point at sheer ignorance...

Please tell me where I said that the increase in mineral prices is entirely due to Hulkageddon...

Can't?

Try not to be a *******... thanks


You were comparing raw numbers without controlling for possible influences other than HAG. That implies that you don't believe that there are other influences to control for. Omission is the greatest sin in Statistics.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Chief Bob
Swine Capitalism
#20 - 2012-06-08 16:33:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Chief Bob
RubyPorto wrote:
Chief Bob wrote:
Ms Bax wrote:
Chief Bob wrote:
Just an FYI

The first post on the Hulkageddon V website was posted on 4-7

Pye price on 4-6 Sell 5.58 isk / Current Sell 10.25
Trit price on 4-6 Sell 5.38 isk / Current Sell 6.90

Prices were even lower in the month preceding the first Hulkageddon announcement.

The prices for both minerals have climbed steadily from that point forward.

based on:

http://www.eve-markets.net/detail.php?typeid=34
http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=35

That is a substantial increase.

Now can we get back on topic or would somebody else like to highjack the thread?


Yeah. And I guess the removal of drone alloys and nerf of missions running loot has absolutely nothing to do with the mineral prices.
Roll


Sigh.. I know that I shouldn't feed the trolls, but sometimes its hard not to point at sheer ignorance...

Please tell me where I said that the increase in mineral prices is entirely due to Hulkageddon...

Can't?

Try not to be a *******... thanks


You were comparing raw numbers without controlling for possible influences other than HAG. That implies that you don't believe that there are other influences to control for. Omission is the greatest sin in Statistics.


No, I was actually just wondering what the isk/hr difference was between a coveter post permageddon and a hulk pre permageddon.

The majority of the replies were off topic and trolls, including your post. No need to control for possible influences other than HAG as that was not the point of the post.

Start here instead of the EVE forums:

http://www.amazon.com/Fun-****-Jane-Not-Available/dp/0448434113/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339173306&sr=1-1
Thanks.
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