These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Hi-sec ganking IS griefing
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#41 - 2012-06-07 00:21:12 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:
Klandi wrote:
Wrong -
CCP made the game
YOU forced me to play this way so YOU are to blame


CCP makes the rules
CCP doesn't have a problem with it
Adapt to the rules.

Ah, so now it's CCP that's griefing by not outlawing ganknig alltogether.

Interesting...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#42 - 2012-06-07 00:22:14 UTC
What conclusion did I arrive at - I was only aware of asking questions

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#43 - 2012-06-07 00:24:04 UTC
Klandi wrote:
What conclusion did I arrive at - I was only aware of asking questions
“Hi-sec ganking IS griefing”


…you know, the title of your OP? An OP punctuated by “That is griefing...”
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#44 - 2012-06-07 00:24:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Klandi wrote:
What conclusion did I arrive at - I was only aware of asking questions
“Hi-sec ganking IS griefing”


…you know, the title of your OP? An OP punctuated by “That is griefing...”

It was... pretty obvious...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-06-07 01:17:58 UTC
Klandi wrote:
So instead of discussing subjective theory, let me express a scenario - as close to factual as possible.

I am an industrialist in game - I want to make money by making stuff and selling stuff. The "sandbox" allows this. To perform this I must have a way of making stuff and also making a profit so I can pay for plexes for my characters and purchase components to make into stuff. My preferred method of making stuff is by erecting a POS - a large one, a Minnie POS.
I need to sell my stuff to the masses and the most cost effective location is Jita - so where is the best place to erect my POS?
IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE.
Sadly not oh gentle reader - because it would not be profitable - and the cost of PLEXes is high so I must maximize my profits. So I put up my POS in hi-sec - fairly close to this major hub.
Now I need fuel to maintain this method of gameplay - where do I go to get this?
IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE.
Again - we are not on the same page - I need to get the ice in hi-sec because it is cost effective and I prefer to do it alone as I cannot afford to share it. So - a Metropolis ice bearing system gets the attention of my ice-miner.
And I get ganked ....

Because the situation has been created that means several variables (hi-sec, POS structures, fuel requirements, location of Jita, type of gameplay) I have no choice about where I go to optimize my profits.

So for the casual player, the one that does not like large groups or never feels the need to be hampered by sitting in or creating a supercap or station - why do I need null-sec?
And why do I need to be ganked?

In short ,YOU have created my dependency and now you want to punish me for it?
That is griefing...


You are griefing me by warping away when I try to shoot at you. Shocked

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Adaten TheGreat
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-06-07 01:24:33 UTC
You're An idiot, leave eve, thanks :)
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#47 - 2012-06-07 01:26:43 UTC
I bet the OP also feels griefed when someone undercuts his entire monthly stock of whatever he built and placed on the market as one huge sell order. Lol
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2012-06-07 01:36:30 UTC
A unique and wholly owned subsiduary of a well known Eve enity

Hahaha
Boomhaur
#49 - 2012-06-07 01:40:22 UTC
I think WoW is even too hardcore for the OP. So let me help you Hello Kitty Online is that a way --> http://www.hellokittyonline.com/

Just try not to get "griefed" in there I heard they could be vicious by your standards.

Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#50 - 2012-06-07 01:43:33 UTC
Klandi wrote:
Wrong -
CCP made the game
YOU forced me to play this way so YOU are to blame


Oh for Dog's sake, will you just grow upRoll

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#51 - 2012-06-07 01:48:49 UTC
Boomhaur wrote:
I think WoW is even too hardcore for the OP. So let me help you Hello Kitty Online is that a way --> http://www.hellokittyonline.com/

Just try not to get "griefed" in there I heard they could be vicious by your standards.

Excuse me but us HelloKittyOnline players are actually a surprisingly hard core bunch, and we resent you sending all these risk averse care bears our way.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Eyezpiddydafooh
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2012-06-07 02:24:32 UTC
Posting in a "I'm a Goon alt and trolling" post.
Kouvoa Erkkinen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-06-07 05:41:17 UTC
Hey now, as a Goon alt, I resent that!
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2012-06-07 06:13:42 UTC
I agree with the thread title to a point.

Suicide Ganking is fine when done in moderation, it basically is a random event and can be dealt with. However when it becomes the main type of gameplay in high sec and is constantly being done day after day to players who engage in a specific aspect of game content, it steps over the line into griefing and harassment. Plain and simple.

As it is right now, I think it has stepped over the line due to being very easy to do and characters can quickly train for it. I believe the reason for the massive increase is players being able to exploite unbalanced game mechanics making it very easy to do. That allows players to create multiple alts specifically for ganking while the main character can scout targets and collect up the loot..When the alt get's too low on security status, create another alt. Probably able to do it just within the 2 week trial time.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#55 - 2012-06-07 06:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Bossy Lady
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I agree with the thread title to a point.

Suicide Ganking is fine when done in moderation, it basically is a random event and can be dealt with. However when it becomes the main type of gameplay in high sec and is constantly being done day after day to players who engage in a specific aspect of game content, it steps over the line into griefing and harassment. Plain and simple.



How would you characterise alliance warfare if not "main type of gameplay in [null] sec and is constantly being done day after day to players who engage in a specific aspect of game content"?

To put it another way: why should an organised campaign of hostilities be acceptable when it's against players in this region, but not when it's against players in that region? What part of the EULA gives an exception for location (other than the very specific exception to the rules concerning can-baiting in starter systems)? Where is it stated that players here are entitled to exemptions and privileges that players there are not? There's no pop-up message that I have seen. There's nothing in the descriptions.

Is there in fact anything except a big old fat flabby unexamined assumption on your part?


Show it to us.

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#56 - 2012-06-07 06:49:08 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I agree with the thread title to a point.

Suicide Ganking is fine when done in moderation, it basically is a random event and can be dealt with. However when it becomes the main type of gameplay in high sec and is constantly being done day after day to players who engage in a specific aspect of game content, it steps over the line into griefing and harassment. Plain and simple.

As it is right now, I think it has stepped over the line due to being very easy to do and characters can quickly train for it. I believe the reason for the massive increase is players being able to exploite unbalanced game mechanics making it very easy to do. That allows players to create multiple alts specifically for ganking while the main character can scout targets and collect up the loot..When the alt get's too low on security status, create another alt. Probably able to do it just within the 2 week trial time.


DMC

According to CCP Diagoras there were only 86 characters with below -2 sec status biomassed last month. And there has been no rise in that number corresponding with hulkageddon.

So yours, and other peoples, theories on rolling disposable alts seem somewhat baseless.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Dante Chusuk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2012-06-07 08:03:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Dante Chusuk
Klandi wrote:
I want to reply to this generally as there are some that have read one thing and think that meant something completely different.

When CCP made the game, as they have expressed on a number of occasions, it is a sandbox - ANYONE could have done and was allowed to do anything to shape the existence of the interaction. They made a HI-sec, lo-sec and null and said use them as you wish..

We formed Jita as a sales hub specifically 4.4 NOT CCP. We carted stuff there to sell there - not CCP. Null sec does NOT have these hubs because we have not made them - consequently we made the situation.
We then decided that we would use the areas as we do so we are to blame for how things have turned out.

I only gave the POS example as a factual scenario and expected you to look at the entire picture. I then applied an unpleasant interaction (ganking) and asked, within the state of the environment we created, why are you doing this.

There are a few that will realise this - the majority won't.

Eve - you live up to my expectation


To back this up, some people might remember that the main trade hub used to be somewhere completely different.

CCP changed the gate network (no more "highway" jumps) to make the universe seem bigger

The COMMUNITY organically moved the trade hub to Jita 4-4 ... Same reason you have trade hubs in other key systems (Rens, Amarr, Dodixie ... even Hek to an extent) due to travel distances, traffic, etc ...

Also ... I miss Yulai ...
Xuse Senna
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#58 - 2012-06-07 08:08:46 UTC
Is the basic rule don't fly a hunk? Why can't ppl mine in the cheaper miner thingy... Can you tell I'v never mined :P

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7501/mindgamesceptionfinaldr.jpg
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-06-07 08:19:14 UTC
Klandi wrote:

In short ,YOU have created my dependency and now you want to punish me for it?
That is griefing...



My sincere apologies, I didnt realise I personally had ruined your game. I didn't realise that while I milk the bountious rewards of my nullsec home that you were poor and living in a shanty town outside Jita, working in a sweatshop producing catalysts while I fly around Fade in billion isk ships ignorant of your suffering.

To make this better, we the rich people of nullsec have started a charity, it is called it The Black Cross. It costs just 25 isk a day to feed people like Klandi and give them a chance at a better life. I personally donated my ratting Tengu to this charity.

If everyone in Eve sends just 25 isk a day to me, I will assure that the people living in squalor around Jita are cared for and given clean water. If Klandi could ask for help, she would. So I am asking for her, send isk. Please.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#60 - 2012-06-07 09:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
Klandi wrote:
I need to get the ice in hi-sec because it is cost effective and I prefer to do it alone


A couple issues with this:

1. If you aren't taking into account the cost of getting ganked once in a while when figuring out profitability, well, perhaps you are doing the math wrong. High sec mining perhaps is not as profitable as it seems on the surface.

2. "I prefer to do it alone". So how come you're playing EVE Online, a MULTI-PLAYER game, if you prefer to be alone? Go out to your yard, grab a couple rocks, put them on your desk, shine a laser pointer at them and pretend you are mining. If you want to simulate ice mining do the same with ice cubes from your freezer. And there, you will have single-player mining with zero risk.

You know you could think about a) joining a nullsec industry alliance or b) renting space in nullsec. Yeah it means you have to share - your time helping out your allies, or your isk if you are renting. But the ice is much better, the ore is better, the planets are better, there's no stupid starbase charters to buy or faction standing to worry about. But yeah once in a while you'll get a visit from people who want to kill you. But that happens now, anwyay.

In all seriousness I was in high sec as a miner/industrialist for YEARS. Moved to null about a year ago and I am loving it.