Jita Park Speakers Corner

Nobody is denying the need to make sure the technology is up to the job. That has no real bearing on whether we get 'meaningful' or 'social' gameplay (Eve's core gameplay has persisted for these years despite its visual shortcomings at times, because the gameplay has been compelling and distinct enough to let the players overlook the graphics).

As for poker, is that really the grand vision to justify 6 years and millions of dollars of development work on Incarna? So we can sit our avatars in a room and play card games for ISK - a feature which, avatars aside, is already provided by EOH? I sometimes wonder if some of these ideas are from Perpetuum devs fakeposting as incarna fans to get CCP to adopt the most shortsighted, banal ideas around to kill the game off entirely. What's next, demanding WiS so our characters can walk to the corner store and buy a bottle of milk?

My take on Incarna/WiS is that it should be somewhat necessary to get involved in WiS. But I also NEED to have a reason to get out of my pod and walk around. For example:

If I want to run missions, I have to start out by getting out of my pod, walking to my agent's office and getting the mission directly at least until the agent "trusts" me enough (i.e. I have high enough standings). Then I can converse with him/her via comms.

Here's what else I would want too:

- Higher Profit / Higher Risk secret / illegal missions givers would have to be found only in station, hidden away.. and could be found in all systems, though ideally not in the most popular stations in the system. They are person to person transaction.. missions not meant to get on the grid.

- Saleable Office Space either as Corp/Alliance offices, Bars/Resturants, Meeting rooms/Party Zones, and Stores. Ideally, another form of manufacturing could be introduced where drinks/food as well as stuff to customize your office/room would be for sale. Also, would like the ability to port IP radio into areas for music and ambiance.

- Windows to the outside universe.

- Gambling - You could start out with two or three games, then later set up customizable kiosk options so that people can bet on things like the Alliance Tourney or something.

I still think Incarna is a year or two out, but also allow us to run.. and maybe tone down the graphics just a hair too. I don't need to see everyone's perfectly rendered body as I am running past trying to get to a war meeting or a secret mission.

System Shock is also storydriven, and isn't very sandboxy.

Time to floating penis store: 0.01s

So you'd be quite happy going back to blackscreen fleet ops where you click on a jump bridge, then some minutes to hours of blackness later you see your character in a pod in their medical clone station? I don't feel that such things are actually compelling and distinct enough to warrant putting up with shortcomings.

For me, that's not "compelling gameplay". I don't know why CCP wasted so much time on it.

[qutoe=Scatim Helicon]As for poker, is that really the grand vision to justify 6 years and millions of dollars of development work on Incarna? So we can sit our avatars in a room and play card games for ISK - a feature which, avatars aside, is already provided by EOH? I sometimes wonder if some of these ideas are from Perpetuum devs fakeposting as incarna fans to get CCP to adopt the most shortsighted, banal ideas around to kill the game off entirely. What's next, demanding WiS so our characters can walk to the corner store and buy a bottle of milk?[/quote]

Consider "poker" to be a wildcard for "meaningful gameplay in stations".

Team Avatar says that multi presence is possible, we need to test that out. The RPers like me will be more than happy with the opportunity to simply talk to people in station using our virtual bodies and voice font voices (as bad as they are). Even EverQuest is adding more in the way of acting props with their face following technology (so when you express surprise by opening your mouth and raising your eyebrows, the avatar does the same thing). Though that video might be a trolling attempt, so perhaps I have been trolled.

All actors need is a stage. Some of us are uncomfortable with our real bodies interacting with real people: having virtual bodies and voices that divorce our personality from our physical being is a godsend. Don't believe me? Ask the transgender community about why they changed their bodies: in most cases they didn't feel comfortable in the bodies they were born with. There are lesser forms of this discomfort where people aren't necessarily so intent on leaving or modifying their natural body, but would enjoy the experience of being able to switch bodies. Some people modify their bodies because they want something to be different: they get tattoos, piercings, or ornamental additions. Being able to play with body modding on an avatar in a game will allow people to explore the concept without taking the drastic steps of getting skull studs implanted, for example.

You want "compelling gameplay" that involves shooting things, so stick to shooting things in space (and of course completely ignore the industry side of the game, because you don't find that part of the game "compelling"). For some people, simply standing around talking to each other as our virtual other-self is compelling gameplay.

Just because you don't find this aspect of the virtual world interesting doesn't mean it's not interesting.

Which goon said that the keys to making ambulation good would be:

1. Allow us to make morbidly obese avatars that use Baron Harkonnen belts to float around.
2. Let us play instruments.

Because I'm for that.


I'd be happy just being a fat dude with a neckbeard drifting around and playing his tuba.

So substitute something that you would find meaningful in a first/second person perspective, which wouldn't make sense in a spaceship perspective.



Let's let this lie as a point that we can't agree on. You only want Incarna delivered if there is meaningful gameplay, I feel that simply having multiple characters in a shared environment is meaningful enough to deliver.



Yes, providing a facility for people to chat with each other divorced from their real selves will help people come out of their shells. Would people parade around with their penises out in real life? No, they wouldn't, but they do on Chat Roulette. People change their behaviour and personality when doing something as simple as wearing a mask.

No, I am not viewing character customisation as "try before you buy". Some people do not want to get tattoos or alter their gender in real life, but they would experiment with altering their appearance in a game simply because they can. Alotta Baggage comes to mind, as do the current flavour-of-the-day threads on cross-gender issues ("why do men play male characters" etc.). The experimentation is already happening, social spaces will enrich that facet of the game. Heck, in WoW I was part of a group whose main activities while logged in were hot baths and performing Shakespeare. We raided too, but that was only when we had enough people in the group who could be bothered (or when a particular piece of clothing we wanted to wear had a level restriction that we couldn't meet). There are people weirder than me out there.

I would suggest that the ability to wear a bathing suit and sit in a hot tub would be compelling content. Simply being able to sit on a chair in a common room would be compelling content. The ability to speak into your microphone and have your voice processed through voice fonts, with the sound being presented in a 3D audio field emanating from your character's face, would be compelling content. 3D sound stages would enhance space combat too, especially with a battle recorder allowing people to prepare high quality battle reports.

As far as exotic dancers go, CCP could contrive to have people like Sharon Kihara (tribal fusion dancer) participate in motion capturing exercises in return for royalties (I don't speak for Sharon Kihara, but by golly would I ever work hard to pay the amounts required to have a tribal fusion belly dancer in my bar/establishment).



Don't you think that board games, card games or talking to each other in station is compelling or meaningful content?

What do you want?

Before you can shoot people there is the issue of being able to see them, and questions arise as to whether there is collision detection or do you simply walk through people.

I am pretty sure that a mass of players will be able to find an ample volume of bugs in a few days of having shared social spaces on Singularity, without any of the complications of shooting people. Little things like certain procedural textures having an apex at infinity when rendered on a 9300 at low detail when someone onscreen has purple hair style #22 with boot tuck style #3.

Nonsense it would take at least 10 minutes to design a really good one.

If people want to design their station interiors to look like the inside of a [body part], then good luck to them.

Late to this, but IMO I should never have to use WIS features to gain/access FIS features. Ever. If exploration offers some WIS content I should never have to touch it to get at my FIS content. Maybe it could offer some WIS-specific content; I'd happily give up any potential profit there to never have to use WIS.

Don't gimp the spaceship game to implement WIS. How sucky would it be to have to get out of your pod and walk for a minute or two to talk to an agent or access the market every time. That's not meaningful, it's tedious.

It'd be pretty cool if you could blow up someone's ship and pod while they were doing WIS exploration, though.