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Hi-sec ganking IS griefing
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VaMei
Meafi Corp
#21 - 2012-06-06 19:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: VaMei
Pinstar Colton wrote:
Yes, other players can make it difficult...nay...impossible to do things that you were previously doing just fine. They can crash or explode markets you depended on, target your assets and otherwise make things tough. A good industrialist learns to adapt. If you were clever enough to come up with a good solid business strategy before, you should be clever enough to re-assess the environment and find a new way to do business.

Exactly right.

The challenges and competition offered by other players are the only things that make Eve any more challenging than Farmville.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-06-06 19:23:12 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
you trying to stop me from ganking you is griefing me



only if he is sucessful at it.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Warpshade
Warped Industries
#23 - 2012-06-06 19:26:52 UTC
Use of game mechanics is not griefing, its merely playing the game! Griefing is to negatively impact other players using out of game mechanics. However harrassment could warrant action, but you woud also have to prove you have been purposely harrassed, and guess what? being killed in Eve randomly by a gankers isnt harrasment neither.

People really need to learn the game they are playing, you knew what the game was and you chose said route, now you have to live with said decision, If you didnt know what the game was...well too bad, now your finding out.

Stop trying to change the game to benefit yourself, basically you just want to accumulate wealth without threat via changing game mechanics.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#24 - 2012-06-06 19:35:28 UTC
Klandi wrote:
So instead of discussing subjective theory, let me express a scenario - as close to factual as possible.

I am an industrialist in game - I want to make money by making stuff and selling stuff. The "sandbox" allows this. To perform this I must have a way of making stuff and also making a profit so I can pay for plexes for my characters and purchase components to make into stuff. My preferred method of making stuff is by erecting a POS - a large one, a Minnie POS.
I need to sell my stuff to the masses and the most cost effective location is Jita - so where is the best place to erect my POS?
IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE.
Sadly not oh gentle reader - because it would not be profitable - and the cost of PLEXes is high so I must maximize my profits. So I put up my POS in hi-sec - fairly close to this major hub.
Now I need fuel to maintain this method of gameplay - where do I go to get this?
IN NULL_SEC OF COURSE.
Again - we are not on the same page - I need to get the ice in hi-sec because it is cost effective and I prefer to do it alone as I cannot afford to share it. So - a Metropolis ice bearing system gets the attention of my ice-miner.
And I get ganked ....

Because the situation has been created that means several variables (hi-sec, POS structures, fuel requirements, location of Jita, type of gameplay) I have no choice about where I go to optimize my profits.

So for the casual player, the one that does not like large groups or never feels the need to be hampered by sitting in or creating a supercap or station - why do I need null-sec?
And why do I need to be ganked?

In short ,YOU have created my dependency and now you want to punish me for it?
That is griefing...

Moral of story: People who are terrible at Eve cannot afford to buy plex.

Working as intended.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Jovan Geldon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-06-06 19:38:06 UTC
You are greifing my eyes by writing such bullshit
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#26 - 2012-06-06 19:39:30 UTC
It seems the OP does not know how to make their own choices. EVE is not the game for them.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#27 - 2012-06-06 19:40:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinstar Colton
Also keep one other thing in mind:
There is a good chance that you are not the only industrialist doing what you were doing (or something very similar). As such, the same conditions that have made business hard for you is making business hard for them, your competition, too. If you are able to tweak the way you do things to account for the changes in the environment and additional risks, but otherwise continue your business, you'll probably find you have bigger profits waiting for you.

Ask any miner who has learned to mine without being ganked. Their adaptation let them remain and now they enjoy much higher mineral prices for their efforts.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-06-06 19:47:40 UTC
Another, "What I mine is free." post, with bonus ganker whine.

1. You don't need a POS to be profitable. In fact a POS may hurt your profits.

I do very well just using publicly available manufacturing, research and invention, slots. Find a quiet highsec system that has low queue times. I can make a profit of about a half bil a week all in public slots, so your argument about "needing" a POS is pretty much moot.

2. Stop trying to gather everything by yourself.

Seriously, set up buy orders, and let somebody who can do it more efficiently than you sell you the materials you need, sometimes a little under value, savings that you can then pocket. Concentrate your skills on becoming a more efficient producer, and preserve even more of your profit margin. Gatherer, producer, efficient, choose two.

3. Stop ******* whining!

Seriously, just stop. You are making yourself look like a fool.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Mina Hiragi
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-06-06 19:51:11 UTC
Klandi wrote:
Again - we are not on the same page - I need to get the ice in hi-sec because it is cost effective and I prefer to do it alone as I cannot afford to share it. So - a Metropolis ice bearing system gets the attention of my ice-miner.


Being unable to 'afford sharing' ice, you choose to mine alone, thereby:

- Causing a potential decrease in m3/hour
- Causing a potential loss in refinery inefficiency
- Causing a definite loss in time wasted hauling/refining your own ice
- Causing a devastating loss by virtue of being alone (there is safety in numbers, even if that safety translates to the guy next to you getting blown up instead of you).

I submit that you yourself should become a hulk-splattering ganker, because the Market Lords of Jita are going to do things to you and your questionable business sense that shouldn't be mentioned even on impolite forums.
Pamplie
The Grind House Corp
#30 - 2012-06-06 19:59:27 UTC
Anyone here old enough to remember M0o? Those guys went on a killing spree in Mara (0.4) and got scattered to the far corners of the universe.
Price Check Aisle3
#31 - 2012-06-06 20:00:00 UTC
This thread should be ganked.
  • Karl Hobb IATS
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#32 - 2012-06-06 21:59:17 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
Another, "What I mine is free." post...


Oh god not this again. PLEASE don't start one of these stupid arguments. Can't you guys just let them be ignorant?

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-06-06 23:47:41 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
Another, "What I mine is free." post...


Oh god not this again. PLEASE don't start one of these stupid arguments. Can't you guys just let them be ignorant?

But he started it.Evil

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#34 - 2012-06-06 23:53:52 UTC
While I often support anti-ganking posts I can't buy the "you made my choices" argument at all.

I do think it's worth talking about ice mining as a separate subject from mineral mining. You can't hide in an ice belt, there are too few of them. You can't get ice products from any other source in the game. Ice mining makes mineral mining look like an action packed night in Amamake.

Back when pos anchoring took hours and hours, ice mining was only the second most mind numbing part of Eve. Now it has no peers. Even more than minerals, Eve runs on ice. I am willing to bet that the ganking in ice systems is far worse than anywhere else.
Nostradamouse Riraille
S.M.U.G.G.L.E.
#35 - 2012-06-06 23:59:56 UTC
Go to amarr, less ganktastic over there...

It's really not that hard ain't it?
Frying Doom
#36 - 2012-06-07 00:02:58 UTC
Hell I just started some of my alts mining again. It really is as funny as hell to watch gankers explode.
Then you loot the wreck and get a nice free influx of cash Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
EVE Roy Mustang
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-06-07 00:05:43 UTC
Frederick Sanger wrote:
Maybe you should move to null sec. Or just continue with your bad posting, poor hypothetical scenarios and dumb conclusions. Whatever.


lol all the usual countertrolls. Hi, Tippia
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#38 - 2012-06-07 00:09:31 UTC
I want to reply to this generally as there are some that have read one thing and think that meant something completely different.

When CCP made the game, as they have expressed on a number of occasions, it is a sandbox - ANYONE could have done and was allowed to do anything to shape the existence of the interaction. They made a HI-sec, lo-sec and null and said use them as you wish..

We formed Jita as a sales hub specifically 4.4 NOT CCP. We carted stuff there to sell there - not CCP. Null sec does NOT have these hubs because we have not made them - consequently we made the situation.
We then decided that we would use the areas as we do so we are to blame for how things have turned out.

I only gave the POS example as a factual scenario and expected you to look at the entire picture. I then applied an unpleasant interaction (ganking) and asked, within the state of the environment we created, why are you doing this.

There are a few that will realise this - the majority won't.

Eve - you live up to my expectation

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#39 - 2012-06-07 00:11:10 UTC
Klandi wrote:
Wrong -
CCP made the game
YOU forced me to play this way so YOU are to blame


CCP makes the rules
CCP doesn't have a problem with it
Adapt to the rules.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#40 - 2012-06-07 00:15:29 UTC
Klandi wrote:
I only gave the POS example as a factual scenario and expected you to look at the entire picture. I then applied an unpleasant interaction (ganking) and asked, within the state of the environment we created, why are you doing this.
You also came to a conclusion without offering much in the way of logic or evidence to support it.