EVE General Discussion

Ill post with my main arswipe, 2003 char , OP is telling it like it is, you gtfo.

Sandbox means you can do whatever you want. Period.

No. It means everyone can do what they want, which will include things you do not want them to do (to you) and which will keep you from doing what you want. Or, to use my new favourite Malcanis quote: sandbox doesn't mean you can succeed at everything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at.


You should probably note that the OP never even mentioned the word…

This is humorously like real life, where the foundations of society always get looked down upon and trod upon.
And yet those high and mighties above them seem to entirely forget where everything they use comes from - the despised classes.

Yes, there's a lot of Carebear hulk miners. Yes, a lot of those miners are unreasonable. And yes, nobody really likes them.
But they're the minority of miners, I think, and the ones we just love to hate.

BUT-

Players too often, I think, make the mistake of hating and looking down on ALL miners instead of realizing that the ones they hate are the people who never got into Eve past the first few industrial tutorials, and simply got bigger ships after that point. They still play the game in a very simplistic way, and their attitudes don't fit into the universe. They're still producers.

More importantly, all miners are producers. They have a vital, vital role in the Eve universe, and it boggles my mind how some people can apparently forget it, and bite the hand that feeds them. Miners always have my respect until they lose it, I think, even if they're the ones at the wrong end of my guns.

well said, OP.

i think it's worth reinforcing one of his points. i think it's ridiculous that people consider PvP to be the endgame, and that if you're not interested in PvP, you're a noob/moron/worthless/ruining the game. i'm one of those people that just doesn't enjoy PvP as much as other things in this game, and so i don't seek it out. now, i live in null, so i still shoot stuff from time to time - usually in defense of others in my alliance - but i don't go roaming 20j away looking for something to kill.

do i get looked down upon by members of my corp? sure. do those same members know who to talk to when they need to make isk to finance their pretty explosions? sure. everyone's got a different focus, and you can excel at those different parts of the game without being some super-duper PvP pilot.

it really does boil down to respect. people say it needs to be earned, and that's true - EvE is the last place to look for a handout (although if you think differently, i've got loads of mex i am liquidating at rock-bottom prices!). there's a difference between saying that people need to earning respect, however, and just automatically assuming you're better than everyone else because they don't follow your profession. there's a difference between treating someone neutrally and treating them like metal scraps. i feel that most pilots in eve approach someone with the opinion that they're worthless, and wait for them to rise up to their 'level'. i've found that it's better to approach them as neutral, and let them derp their way down to obscurity or rise above the muck.

Your just reiterating what I said, I agree, totally

What you said and what I said differs on a few critical points. You might have meant the same, but it didn't quite come out that way.

Also, the OP isn't quite telling it like it is for much the same reason.

Upset about something posted on GD?

Looking for respect from strangers over the internet?

#1 I'm pretty sure James means simply buffing the yield:tank ratio. It certainly is what most carebear miners are whining about when they come with 300M ISK ship-arguments. Underlying mining-mechanics have little to do with this.

#2 As it stands? Funny thing about suicide-ganking is that it simply forces the players to adapt , which the smart ones always do, quickly establishing a new equilibrium. As such it's never truly unbalanced.

#3 No it's not. He's simply asking your opinion about non-consensual combat and shenanigans it high-sec.

#4 This is even simpler: mining is all about profit (with gankers being a calculated risk). Boosting high-sec mining is comparing this profit with low and null-sec (and WH for the truly desperate). The fact that there are almost no miners in low-sec should make this a no-brainer.

edit: when people talk about adding new mechanics for an EVE-profession, they usually mean 'CCP give us a way to make more money in a fun way' , while they should be asking for a way to have more fun while still making some money.

Ganking cuts in mining profits, when you're asking for new mechanics to deal with this, you're basically asking for #1.

Allright, I'll go with those definitions:

1. No, the Hulk doesn't need to be changed. It wouldn't make any difference.

3. Again, a very complex question, but looking at it conceptually, no. Non-consensual combat (and related activity) should be allowed in High Sec. Hell, it *needs* to be there. Otherwise Eve High Sec becomes the Elwynn Forest in space.

4. Really that's a question of "Where is it more profitable to mine." I feel that mining in 0.0 really needs a buff. I spent some time in 0.0 and by and large the mining there is *terrible*, aside from a few choice ores. Gnesis and Spoduman? Are you serious? People mine in High Sec because it's 'safer,' easier (logistically), and therefore, more profitable overall. Toss in the High Sec ore vs. 0.0/Low Sec ore yields, and yes, mining is heavily balanced in the favor of High Sec.

This is less than a question of price, which is determined by the player, something that CCP ultimately has no control over, and more a question of value added to the game. 0.0/low sec ores currently add little value relative to their High Sec counterparts. This must change if 0.0/Low Sec mining is to be a large scale viable alternative to High Sec mining.

Miners belong in eve, they just also must be scourged relentlessly by their betters as well, made to realize the depths of their inferiority and made to understand their opinions on the rest of the game are wrong.

In other words, respect is the last thing you should give to a miner. One does not respect plankton, after all, no matter how much sea life relies on it in one way or another.