Player Features and Ideas Discussion

YET AGAIN: You can opt out of combat PVP in highsec when I can opt out of market PVP.



Move level 4 missions and incursions to low/null as well, or this has absolutely no effect at al... other than causing highsec explorers to quit the game.



Depending on the specifics, I could find quite a few ways to circumvent or abuse such a system. Suffice to say, it wouldn't stop me from hunting you whenever I please. Don't waste the devs' time.

3. Put Lvl 5 and 6 quality/difficulty missions into high sec with bounties, not LP, as the reward.

Level 6 missions? I think we're done here.

4. Put rare spawns in high sec and increase spawn rate in low.

Yes, because making rare ores accessible in an even safer high sec won't affect the market at all.

5. POS construction based on individual status and not Corp.

MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER. This is a team game. Deal with it.



No, it's not about PVP. It's about competition. PVP is a part of that and if you think that taking combat out of highsec is good for Eve, you have so completely missed the mark that there's no helping you.


And those gamers don't play Eve. Also, we don't want them here.

Victorian America (i.e. late 19th Century) --> was the land of opportunity, roads paved with gold, etc., etc.

You know what happened when people came through Ellis Island? "Oh, no, the roads are just roads... and, well, I'm not super rich just for getting off the boat..."

SOME of them (or their children, or grandchildren) made it big (got fame & fortune, etc). Some just got better lives in general. Both of these groups had to put in :effort: to get where they were though...

Same in EVE ... you're not gonna be somebody in 6 hours ... or 6 days ... or 6 months ... or hell, 6 years ... but you can TRY.

Sure, but thats exactly why eve utilizes a niche and will never go mainstream and also why current eve players like it this way. Its simply a complete opposite mindset of players, therefor it will remain a niche game and i don't see a problem with it. Thats what i mean that eve gameplay is "far" away from current mainstream games, the "normal" mainstream player don't want to wait "6 hours ... or 6 days ... or 6 months ... or hell, 6 years" or even 15 minutes to actually achieve something or have fun.

As a example if i would just start playing WoW, SWTOR, Tera, WoT, LoL or any other "conventional" MMO/MOBA out there, at the end of the day or even after 2 hours, i would feel some sense of accomplishment and satisfaction. At the end of the first eve day u basically just notice, hell i have so much to learn and damm this game is complex and there may be more interesting stuff in it, if i put more time into it.

In essence u learn "Eve is different and strange".


bye Andy


PS: Also keep in mind that while the sand-boxy pvp and harsh death penalty system attracts certain players, it also is one of the main reasons, a mainstream MMO player wont touch eve, even if u pay him to play. All my conversations to friends about eve, always ended abruptly if i told them they could loose quite some items/ships if they where not carefully and they could not prevent this kind of mechanic. They are simply not used to this kind of play-style and mindset and are not willing to try it. Still the main reason none of my friends play eve, is simply that it looks ****** and boring if u actually watch someone playing it.

Yay a other "old" men, Solusek Ro Shaman and Bard here! All praise the AoW :)

My first EvE experience, was back in the day's where u could not insure ships. Basically i played 5 days got a fully equipped rifter and than got lured and attacked by some PvP dudes in a 0.4 system. At this point i had no clue what the difference between a 0.5+ and a 0.4 system was. The result was i directly rage quit eve and it took me 4 years to give it a other try, because i was bored with my current MMO/MOBA. The second time around i played until i "could" grind LvL4 missions in my raven and tengu, but quit again after 3 months, since i noticed that all the "cool" stuff and news, seemed to happen in low/null-sec, but i could not bring myself to find either, this pirating or nullsec warfare interesting enough. I also noticed that the actual gameplay involved in all kind of eve PvE gameplay, gets so boring after a while that even farming Ruby Armor or SoW Boots in EQ seemed to be more fun, maybe not as boring as camping for the Glowing Black Stone in Quenos :p

To get to the happy end, i started giving Eve a last chance 9 months ago by realizing that i like games like StarPeace, Sims, Settlers, so i started looking into the Industry/Trading part of eve and up until now found that this is what eve does best for me. I get a very complex and realistic economy simulation, with lost of gameplay that is not present in other games, so thats what i'm having fun at. Also the market/industry gameplay with all the crappy Eve UI/tables does not differ this much from other economy/sim games, but ofc takes a special kind of player to find this "fun".

bye Andy

PS: More EQ stories pls!

You are special...just like everyone else!

- blockade of Yulai: Never even heard of this one

- The construction of the first titan, and subsequent loss to BoB and their allies: Hard to be impressed now that there are blobs of Supers running around. Knowing the wreck of the Titan is out there still is kinda cool, but not enough to try and see it.

- BoB's downfall: Hard to be impressed when Null pushes people into forming large alliances. Oh and does BoB even exist anymore?

- OTEC (seriously, SOMEONE will break this, eventually): One patch to change moon mechanics and this will be over as well.

- blockade of Jita: A bunch of people decide to gank in high sec, again not impressive.

All of the "accomplishments" you listed aren't that impressive to me and most of them are just fading memories. Almost as if they'd been erased with downtime. The things that impress me are Hydra/Outbreak owning the AT last year up until the last match, R&K owning a chunk of Null with a small player base, being part of an Incursion fleet to kill a MOM, or putting an ECM on target and saving a fleet mate.

Those are the kinds of accomplishments I value.

When I played EQ (Druzzil Ro) I had a small part in helping to get an alliance of guilds together to rotate Ragefire spawns so cleric epics weren't limited to the top three guilds on the server. That alliance lasted until SOE changed the spawn mechanic and allowed anyone to get an Epic. I had a full suit of Deepwater armor and my Fiery Defender. I saved my group in Sol B on many occasions using tactics most people wouldn't try. Switching games, I was at the first keep defense on the Gawain server for DAoC. Another thane and myself laid the hammer smack down on the guys breaking through the door for nearly an hour.

Accomplishments that I'm proud of but no one else really cares about. That's the essence of gaming though, finding things that the individual take pride in.

My first Eve accomplishment was solo killing the final boss in the Sister's of Eve arc. That took me less then two weeks to accomplish I think, but I loved figuring out how to kill him finally. So what if he spawns for the next guy. My first successful blockade mission. The first time I joined my Corp mates in a mission and saw torpedo's exploding.

Why should I care what other players do in the game. So what if player_1337 has the highest kill ratio in the game? Don't know the guy, don't know what he's doing for his kills, couldn't care less if he stays or goes. An attitude I've seen in hundreds of different gamers in other games but something that is somewhat rare in Eve. However I have tried PVP on a bunch of games and I like to dabble in it when I'm in the mood. Unfortunately that means if I want to play Eve I have to be in the mood for PVP. Since most of the time I enjoy PVE action I go find another game. Oddly enough this usually ends up being WoT or BF3. PVP but without all the bother of having to grind ISK to replace ships I might lose in combat. Just play a few rounds, have some fun, relax, and log off at the end of the night with a good feeling. Unlike Eve where most of the time I have to constantly be watching out for possible ambush, most losses are frustrating to replace, and a casual gameplay doesn't create enough ISK to spend much time roaming low sec.

I probably would have quit Eve a year ago except for the fact it's the only game I know where my character keep getting better without having to actually play. There are some fun aspects to Eve but the frustration centered around never being safe is such that I've all but quit playing. I just hope that when I get back to the states I'll be able to enjoy the game again, it's the only reason my accounts are still active.

that's because I'm a ****** ... m0o blockaded Mara. Gotta stop poasting and checking other stuff at the same time.


There's a reason I called it " BoB's downfall"



Yeah, R&K and Hydra are known as well ... what I listed were the "big" events that everyone should know about (OK, except for the fuckup with mentioning Yulai instead of Mara... ). R&K and others are known, but I'm not 100% sure of how "well known" they are.

Hell, you can include some of the "big" heists in the list as well ... names just don't come to mind ATM ...




Never played Evercrack, so I can't comment on how far-reaching something like that was.
As for killing the SoE guy -- hear he's a real bastard at low SP, so good for you there ...

Thing is, EVE is built on the stories of the players, and yeah ... some stories aren't as exciting as others. Some may just be "logged in, mined 4 hours, logged off", others may be "logged in, roamed Delve, logged off", and then there are the big ones -- "disbanded BoB" ... "blockaded Mara" ... "made ~800bn in EIB scam" ... "stole 200bn from EBANK, RMT'd it for $6100 (AUS)" ... and so on...

Amdor Renevat, So you've played EQ, WoW, SWTOR, Tera, WoT, LoL, but have you played any Sandbox MMOs other than EVE? Early UO, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Mortal Online? Because, those are the games you should be comparing EVE to, not Everquest and WoW. All of those Sandbox MMOs have their main farms and fields (PvE) in the same areas as PvP, other than for newbies they don't have PvE zones safe from PvP, as that's a Themepark MMO feature.



Unless they're coming to EVE to embrace the Sandbox and PvP nature of EVE, I'd rather they didn't come at all. I think this is a sentiment shared by pretty much everyone who considers themselves fans of Sandbox MMO gameplay and much of EVE's veterans.



Most MMO's are a "niche" game. But really who's closed minded here? You've come to this game and rather than embrace it for what it is meant to be, want to change it to reflect the gameplay of previous games you've played. You've made many long posts here, which shows effort and motivation, all your posts are articulate which shows education and intellect, yet some how you've made no real effort to understand what it is your talking about. You don't seem to understand what Sandbox MMOs are about, nor what it is that attracts players to such games. Given you're motivated, not lazy, educated, and reasonably intelligent what could be the reason for this blatant oversight? Closed Mindedness!



If by "Better Atmosphere for PvE orientated players" you mean Themepark style PvE zones free from PvP, yes that would very much lessen EVE and radically change it's Sandbox nature. Better to do a Trammel than that to EVE, but in the end either would likely kill the game, as most Vets and Sandbox players would bail on EVE, and it's unlikely CCP could add content and change their game fast enough to draw in enough Themepark players before the whole thing sunk.

I don't think any has to-do with "closed Mindedness", but simply with experience and different taste. There is no rule that states sandbox games need to have pvp at all, thats just something every developer has to decide for himself. Also game mechanics and conventions change constantly and evolve or we would still have to sit 5-10mins on our asses to regen health or travel 60minutes just to meet with our friends in-game.

Try analyze eve from a game mechanic and economy standpoint, so most agree that eve's quest and pve system is kinda weak and boring. I would go even a step further and state, that if u would remove/change the current form of harsh death penalty, even eve's fight system would be boring. My guess is many pvp players play eve because of the harsh implications a kill/death has, rather than the actual fight mechanic.
On the economic site, since i'm a industrialist myself, i can simply say: without the hash and frequent PvP eve would be much more boring for me. I "need" all those crazy pvp guys killing each other and ganking in hisec, this results in a quite active and changing market. Except for StarPeaceOnline, i don't any other game with such a deep and working economy.

So basically if we change the current pvp gameplay, eve would be left with quite some outdated and boring game mechanics. So it seems more logical to me to keep the current rules intact, since eve found a working and stable niche, rather than risking loosing the niche to push into a more mainstream market. CCP basically tries this with DUST, u cant get any more mainstream than a FPS on a console, lets see how this works out :p


bye Andy

PS: Btw even WoW has the same problem, u don't change the core game mechanics of a successfully and profitable game even if u "think" u can do better, what u do is releasing a new "different" game. So if eve would be in financial troubles, than its worth the risk loosing old players, by changing a core mechanic/rule-set.

In regard to the OPer and those like him, yes it is about closed mindedness. Where it isn't closed mindedness it's ignorance. It's fine to have different tastes. The problem is people coming to an activity which given the smallest amount of research would reveal it wasn't for people with their taste, but coming regardless and trying to change the activity to suit themselves. Would you go to a venue for line dancers and demand they change the music from Country to Hip Hop so you can break dance? Do you join a Rugby league then demand the rules be changed so you can play Soccer? If you were a point based karate competitor would it be reasonable for you to demand the UFC make their rules less "hardcore" because your experience and taste is different, but for some reason you still want to participate and compete for the UFC belt?

In regards to Sandbox RPGs; If the sandbox game is massively multiplayer and built around warfare and competition (which almost all MMOs are), then yes it does need to have PvP. A game like EVE must have PvP, because it's defined as such by virtue of being a Sandbox with multiple players, built around competition in a background of conflict.