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Having a hard time wrapping my head around all the options . . .

Author
MetaMorpheus Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-06-06 17:10:06 UTC
Last night I bought a Kestrel, and ended up spending 2 hours trying to find a fit that would give me enough power for all four launchers and an afterburner (started with a MWD, but couldn't pull enough energy to power it)

This is what I ended up with:

High
[ Light Missile Launcher I ]
[ Light Missile Launcher I ]
[ Light Missile Launcher I ]
[ Light Missile Launcher I ]

Mid
[ Afterburner I ]
[ Shield Booster I ]
[ ~empty~ ]

Low
[ Micro Auxiliary Power Core I ]
[ Micro Auxiliary Power Core I ]

When I asked in Rookie Help Chat what I should use to increase my power grid (before coming up with the above fit), I was pointed towards this:

Small Ohm Capacitor Reserve I

and this:

Reactor Control Unit I

Obviously, the Cap Reserve did nothing to solve my problem. It wanted power I already didn't have, rather than increase the available power. The second was a step in the right direction, but after further reading in E-Uni's website on powergrids and Cap, I found that this performed better with larger ships, as it gives an additional % of base power. So I settled on the MAPC I, giving me a flat 10mw more for each one I installed.

I am getting the feeling that often I have half-assed fits because I don't know what is available to me, or can't make heads or tails of the differences in a particular module class, simply because making side-by side comparisons in Eve is a bit unwieldy. Ex: are all modules that add additional power/cpu exclusively low slot modules? Are cap modules exclusively mid slot? etc ...

-Now, this isn't for a specific mission type or anything, I'm just trying to better learn to fit ships. I have the EFT and am learning to use it, but still a rook - again, it seems the EFT is great if you already understand what you are doing. So , my question is this: Am I going about this the wrong way? Seems when I do find a fit that works, it is almost accidental, and I wouldn't know if I muffed up a fit until i was blasted out of the sky because my fit was weak. Is it just practice and experience that I am missing?

Thank you.

That monocle looks ridiculous. 

Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#2 - 2012-06-06 17:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
You should be able to fit this, even on low skill (this requires engineering 3). Make sure you're not using the wrong size shield booster. Sometimes you need a bit more PG which you can get from using named mods (named modules tend to have easier fittings, albeit mostly cpu related) or by using a PG rig (ancillary current router).


[Kestrel, lvl 1 - starter]
Ballistic Control System I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

1MN Afterburner I
Small Shield Booster I
Cap Recharger I

Light Missile Launcher I, Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher I, Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher I, Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher I, Scourge Light Missile

Small Ancillary Current Router I
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2012-06-06 17:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
[Kestrel, Level 1 Missions]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Power Diagnostic System I

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Small C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I

Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile
Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


EDIT: Updated with the new module names for the meta items.
Renier Gaden
Immortal Guides
#4 - 2012-06-06 17:33:24 UTC
In my first few months of EVE, before I graduated to larger ships, I remember never bing able to put a full rack of missel launchers on my Kestrel due to power grid issues. Now with better skills, I can do so easily.

I am currently working on skilling Advanced Weapons Upgrades which reduces the power grid requirements for weapons such as those missel launchers. This makes a big difference, because weapon use a lot of power grid, and you equip several of them. But that is a more advanced skill. There are one or two other less advanced skills that give bonuses to power grid. They are probably under Engendering, or Electronics. Look through your skills, and then look through the skill books on the market, until you find the ones that effect power grid, and train those.

You can also get implants that give power grid bonuses, but that could get expensive. There are some rigs that give power grid too if you have Jerry rigging and the appropriate rigging skill.
Rezig Huruta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-06-06 17:33:33 UTC
There a TONS of options and that's what makes it so cool.

Definitely look into the meta 2 and 3 items for reduced fitting requirements. They don't cost much more usually and can be the extra little bit you need to fit stuff.
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-06-06 17:34:50 UTC
PG Mods: Micro Auxiliary Power Core, Reactor Controll, Diagnostic System, Ancillary Current Router (Rig)
All but the Rig are low slots.
CPU Mods: Co-Processor, Processor Overclocking Unit (Rig)
Co-Processor is a Low Slot.
Capacitor Modules: Cap Recharger, Cap Battery, Cap Booster, Cap Power Relay, Cap Flux Coil, Diagnostic System, Capacitor Control Circuit (Rig) Semiconductor Memory Cell (Rig)
The First three are Mid slots, last 2 are Rigs, other than that low slots.

I'd Recoment Training up your Engineering Skill some more.

Like all things in life, Practice makes perfect. You will learnt the subtle differences between different modules in time (I remember being just as perplexed as you are now when I started)

[u]I, too, horse frogs.[/u] Support the Return of Realistic Module Icons! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114818&find=unread

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-06-06 17:49:59 UTC
This is just general advice. There's a compare module tool in eve - open a module's info, go to 'variations', then click 'compare' at the bottom. Sort them by meta level. Meta levels 1-2 should be affordable and will likely have better fitting requirements.

The best things to increase your available CPU and grid are skills. Engineering increases powergrid, Advanced weapon Upgrades lowers the grid requirement for weapons. Electronics and Weapon Upgrades for CPU. These will stack and improvement is pretty dramatic. With these skills at a good level you wouldn't need to fit the Micro Aux PCs to fit your launchers.

I don't know how to answer on whether you're going about fitting the wrong way :( Fit for what the ship is supposed to be doing, I guess, then figure out how to keep it alive.
MetaMorpheus Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-06-06 18:01:52 UTC
Thank you all for your replies.

I had not really considered named mods, but in looking at their properties I can see the advantages of using them. For some reason I thought those were for the advanced versions of each ship class. Learn something new every day.

I can also see from the fitting examples given that I have left rigs out of the equation entirely; I need to consider what advantages they might give me (and of course, train to use them lol).

And this:

Mira Lynne wrote:
You will learnt the subtle differences between different modules in time (I remember being just as perplexed as you are now when I started)


is very encouraging, seriously. I was beginning to feel a bit like a dim bulb. Thank you.

That monocle looks ridiculous. 

Kale Eledar
Venerated Industries
#9 - 2012-06-06 19:56:22 UTC
You're on the right track. Eve is a jargon-riddled game. Take your time, get your skills up, keep at it, and it will fit together eventually. Battleclinic fits can give you a good idea of the ship's general fitting styles and limitations.

First come smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire.

Beef Knuckleback
Pawnstars INC
#10 - 2012-06-07 03:34:49 UTC
Kale Eledar wrote:
You're on the right track. Eve is a jargon-riddled game. Take your time, get your skills up, keep at it, and it will fit together eventually. Battleclinic fits can give you a good idea of the ship's general fitting styles and limitations.


That said, even with well developed fitting skills I find the Kestrel a pain in the rump to fit to my taste. Rockets are a good deal easier to squeeze onto it.

Also, to the OP:

In many cases the only difference between a meta 4 module and a T2 module is that the meta 4 has fewer penalties and is easier to fit. While you're skilling up you'll want to stick to whatever "best named" you can fit or afford to fit - though in some cases "best named" doesn't always mean "best fitting" - some meta 2 or 3 modules have lower PG or CPU requirements than t1 or t2, for example.
MetaMorpheus Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-06-07 04:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: MetaMorpheus Jones
Beef Knuckleback wrote:


In many cases the only difference between a meta 4 module and a T2 module is that the meta 4 has fewer penalties and is easier to fit. While you're skilling up you'll want to stick to whatever "best named" you can fit or afford to fit - though in some cases "best named" doesn't always mean "best fitting" - some meta 2 or 3 modules have lower PG or CPU requirements than t1 or t2, for example.



I found this in the EveOpedia guides page. - exactly what you are talking about.

One of the things I understand about this game is how everything I choose, from implants to race to the skills I choose, has an effect on how ships perform, how modules perform. Is there a map, showing what implants effect what skill, ship and module properties, what skill is related to which module I may or may not use, what ship is boosted towards what skill or module . . . etc, etc . . . as I write this I am already thinking that, even if there is a map, it would be either illegible or a 1GB+ file.

Thank you again for your help.

That monocle looks ridiculous. 

Beef Knuckleback
Pawnstars INC
#12 - 2012-06-07 17:27:54 UTC
EVE is internet-famous for its near-vertical learning curve. I've been playing for around two years and I'm still occasionally learning new things - and teaching veterans new tricks as well. For me roughly half of the game is situational awareness - keeping up on politics, reading the forums, watching devblogs like a hawk, etc.

While you can (eventually) train anything, fly anything, and do anything, I'd suggest that you pick-and-stick with one race, one tank type and one or two weapons systems for the first few weeks (or months!) while you learn the ropes. I started Gallente, fell in love with drone boats, and was running l4s in a Dominix shortly after my Learning Bonus expired. Two years later I don't use drone boats nearly as much as I used to - I've branched into missiles and am slowly picking up guns.

One thing that may help with learning the ropes - get your API key seeded and plug it into EFT or EVEHQ (Windows) or Pyfa (Mac/Windows), and start seeing what you can fit and fly with your skills, how much damage it does on paper, etc. I've paper-crafted hundreds of ships but have only flown a fraction - due to fitting, cost, skills, or personal preference.

Arrow EVE is Complicated. It's a Feature! Cool
Lili Lu
#13 - 2012-06-07 18:37:38 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
The best things to increase your available CPU and grid are skills. Engineering increases powergrid, Advanced weapon Upgrades lowers the grid requirement for weapons. Electronics and Weapon Upgrades for CPU. These will stack and improvement is pretty dramatic. With these skills at a good level you wouldn't need to fit the Micro Aux PCs to fit your launchers.

I don't know how to answer on whether you're going about fitting the wrong way :( Fit for what the ship is supposed to be doing, I guess, then figure out how to keep it alive.

This. You are a 24 day old character. There was a time when being new was even harder. And one point you started with **** all for sp. And, there were things called the learning skills. Until you trained them your attributes were **** and your abilities were even worse than you are experiencing now. The saving grace of the learning skills was they taught a player about the importance of skills. Mods can give you more grid, but your greatest gain will come from skills.

Weapons upgrades and yes training it to 5 so you can train AWU is a necessary evil even for a new player. That and the base fitting skills, engineering and electronics. Also some more obscure skills that will have "upgrades" in their names can ease fitting problems. Read the descriptions of the skills on the item database pages of the eve-wiki. Good luck with your time in eve. Smile
Aulx-Gao Ekanon
#14 - 2012-06-07 19:59:01 UTC
MetaMorpheus Jones wrote:
Beef Knuckleback wrote:


In many cases the only difference between a meta 4 module and a T2 module is that the meta 4 has fewer penalties and is easier to fit. While you're skilling up you'll want to stick to whatever "best named" you can fit or afford to fit - though in some cases "best named" doesn't always mean "best fitting" - some meta 2 or 3 modules have lower PG or CPU requirements than t1 or t2, for example.



I found this in the EveOpedia guides page. - exactly what you are talking about.

One of the things I understand about this game is how everything I choose, from implants to race to the skills I choose, has an effect on how ships perform, how modules perform. Is there a map, showing what implants effect what skill, ship and module properties, what skill is related to which module I may or may not use, what ship is boosted towards what skill or module . . . etc, etc . . . as I write this I am already thinking that, even if there is a map, it would be either illegible or a 1GB+ file.

Thank you again for your help.


I'm not aware of any map that will show you what you want, but this website and the EVE HQ software can help. In the EVE HQ fitting tool you can see the myriad skill and ship bonuses that affect modules.

_Naughty by nature, wicked by choice. _

Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#15 - 2012-06-08 02:18:09 UTC
Yeah Kestrel can be hard to fit 4 Standard Launchers onto with low skills, but as said above, skills will give you more powergrid than modules at the start. I trained Electronics V, Engineering V and Weapon Upgrades V (Which unlocks Advanced Weapon Upgrades which you can train to III in less than a day which I did and left there for quite awhile) within my first month or so of playing as I kept being told again and again that they were the best skills for noobs to train.

On a side note the Kestrel is an excellent ship and you should keep training for it, I used one all the way to the end of the Sisters of Eve arc and never lost it, excellent range and an afterburner will keep you alive against most enemies in L1/L2s.
drdxie
#16 - 2012-06-08 02:47:21 UTC
Eve can be daunting, but stick it out and it will be worth it. I don't know of a single player that wasn't confuse when they started out, so don't feel alone. Sadly the new player chats are riddled with alts that add no value. When I started I probably spent more time in EVE HQ and Evemon than I did on the game. What I did was grab fits from the web and put them in hq and then used evemon to compare the various options. So in evemon if you search an item, say Large Shield Extender the list narrows down, then pick one, click on it, then backspace on the filter\search area, you will then be left in the tree that has all similar mods. Likewise you could search for power and you will get a list of all models that influence power. Works for skills too, in the search\filter area type power, and every skill that influences power will be displayed.
Joining a good corp makes a big difference also. In most cases local will also help you out. I am happy to help anyone if they evemail me :)

Always remember this, and everyone has gone through it

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277