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How Screwed are Salvagers?
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Lustralis
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-06-05 20:09:11 UTC
General Abitis wrote:
Okay this i just can't stop being pissed over, I've been playing eve for 4 years now, I trained for 4 years to be perfected in mission running but 2 years ago i decided to train to become a mission salvager so i can start running missions to reprocess the items to build battleships to sell on the markets, but ever since the Inferno CCP has put the screws to the whole point of training for 2 whole years to be a salvager, now they got it where mission wrecks that has loot is rare, and then the wrecks that actual has loot is useless loot like Drone AI or 1 piece of **** scrap metal, before i could run a Drone mission then reprocess 233 unit of zydrine 98 megacyte now i get 0 that


Not being funny or anything, but I have 190m worth of meta 3/4 items from loot sitting in my hanger. You don't need to refine everything these days. I use the meta 4 in invention and so do lots of others. Check out the buy orders on market.
Kalli Brixzat
#22 - 2012-06-06 02:43:06 UTC
Hans Tesla wrote:
General Abitis wrote:
Tirade

Stop running drone missions. I regularly ninja salvage Level 4 Guristas and pull 10+M ISK in modules alone, not to mention salvage components for rigs.

CCP saw fit to rebalance the dynamic that mission runners were able to do a better, more efficient job of acquiring minerals than miners. Until rocks start giving bounties, I don't think you really have much to complain about.


This...is...so...much...win.

I used to turn ore from reprocessed loot into ships to sell. Then the change happened and I started to dabble in rigs. SO MUCH MORE PROFITABLE.
Johnny Augustus
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-06-06 04:44:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Augustus
Spineker wrote:
Mission LP = Awesome. Wrong

Why? Because you say so? A lot of mission runners don't even bother to loot and salvage after their missions, because they find that when they just go to their next one, they are making more isk/hour just with the bounties and LP.

"Mission runners = made already obsolete miners obsolete. Wrong"

Oh, and I argued that the drone alloys especially made miners more obsolete. Now they're just less obsolete.

"Drone alloy I can almost agree with but the main buyer of such alloy was industrialist builders so you turned off another person’s way of playing the game by removing their supply. Do you see the problem when you break something over here, you break something else over there. It is the old drop the rock in the pond reaction. How about leave the stuff alone and play. Mining sucked from the start and always has. Nerfing the hell out of all the other players is why CCP has hemorrhaged its player base in the last couple of months. "

You don't really know that much about industry or economics, do you?

The manufacturing players don't really care that much about mineral prices, since they're not the ones eating that cost. The end buyer is. When the mineral prices rise, the end product prices rise. The manufacturers are still making the same profit margin.

"I don't think anyone ever looks beyond their nose when developing this game. The Devs are just shortsighted and very very bad at planning and understanding the ramifications of their endless nerfing and buffing of special interest groups. One of the coolest games ever made and they **** it up every time they patch and NERF THE HELL OUT OF THEIR customers."

This paragraph I just find really hilarious. It fits just as well coming from a miner complaining about gun mining!

"Your summary is wrong from the first word. "Equal" no such thing the rest of your post is just a continuation of your flawed understanding."

Yeah.... My flawed understanding....

"CCP asskissing 0.0 space made mining obsolete a long long time ago. Not mission runners but CCP and their nerfs to miniing anywhere but as a slave to tard epeens in 0.0. Good job"

I would be really interested on hearing your reasoning here.
General Abitis
Awoken Disintegration Fleet
#24 - 2012-06-06 15:12:59 UTC
Johnny Augustus wrote:
Spineker wrote:
Mission LP = Awesome. Wrong

Why? Because you say so? A lot of mission runners don't even bother to loot and salvage after their missions, because they find that when they just go to their next one, they are making more isk/hour just with the bounties and LP.

"Mission runners = made already obsolete miners obsolete. Wrong"

Oh, and I argued that the drone alloys especially made miners more obsolete. Now they're just less obsolete.

"Drone alloy I can almost agree with but the main buyer of such alloy was industrialist builders so you turned off another person’s way of playing the game by removing their supply. Do you see the problem when you break something over here, you break something else over there. It is the old drop the rock in the pond reaction. How about leave the stuff alone and play. Mining sucked from the start and always has. Nerfing the hell out of all the other players is why CCP has hemorrhaged its player base in the last couple of months. "

You don't really know that much about industry or economics, do you?

The manufacturing players don't really care that much about mineral prices, since they're not the ones eating that cost. The end buyer is. When the mineral prices rise, the end product prices rise. The manufacturers are still making the same profit margin.

"I don't think anyone ever looks beyond their nose when developing this game. The Devs are just shortsighted and very very bad at planning and understanding the ramifications of their endless nerfing and buffing of special interest groups. One of the coolest games ever made and they **** it up every time they patch and NERF THE HELL OUT OF THEIR customers."

This paragraph I just find really hilarious. It fits just as well coming from a miner complaining about gun mining!

"Your summary is wrong from the first word. "Equal" no such thing the rest of your post is just a continuation of your flawed understanding."

Yeah.... My flawed understanding....

"CCP asskissing 0.0 space made mining obsolete a long long time ago. Not mission runners but CCP and their nerfs to miniing anywhere but as a slave to tard epeens in 0.0. Good job"

I would be really interested on hearing your reasoning here.


Well he does have a valid point, the only thing manufacturers care about are the endgame item worth, but that's exactly why we salvage, for those in high sec that don't want to pay for low sec mins salvaging was the alternative to mining in low sec, but i disagree that the game is messed up, CCP has done this kind of thing since dominion, though i do agree mining has become worthless unless you mine in 0.0, I'm just shocked that CCP would ever destroy a profession of the game, and u like must that have stated that mission runners makes more doing speed runs, but not everyone is wanting to make quick isk, for most getting that battleship built without using isk to build it for new recruits is more important not the isk
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#25 - 2012-06-06 15:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
A perfect noctis pilot takes two months, three if you count the support skills a mission pilot should already have. It takes another 70 days to train to PERFECT reprocessing. Grand total for training a mission pilot to salvage and reprocess with max skills: 130 days. Slightly more than 4 months.

edit: and 23 days worth of the industrial training also applies to ore refining, which means the character is cross-trained.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Hans Tesla
RigWerks Incorporated
#26 - 2012-06-06 15:48:33 UTC
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
I used to turn ore from reprocessed loot into ships to sell. Then the change happened ...

Oh man, since the only way this would really make sense is if you aren't getting any module drops (since Meta 1-4 can be reprocessed just like Meta 0s), you might want to bug report or petition that. Hate that for you.

Head Rigger In Charge
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-06-06 15:52:19 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
A perfect noctis pilot takes two months, three if you count the support skills a mission pilot should already have. It takes another 70 days to train to PERFECT reprocessing. Grand total for training a mission pilot to salvage and reprocess with max skills: 130 days. Slightly more than 4 months.

edit: and 23 days worth of the industrial training also applies to ore refining, which means the character is cross-trained.

why would anyone want a perfect noctis pilot? you need like 15 days to get 90% of the efficiency and after that just train combat like any sane person....

I should buy an Ishtar.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#28 - 2012-06-06 17:18:56 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
A perfect noctis pilot takes two months, three if you count the support skills a mission pilot should already have. It takes another 70 days to train to PERFECT reprocessing. Grand total for training a mission pilot to salvage and reprocess with max skills: 130 days. Slightly more than 4 months.

edit: and 23 days worth of the industrial training also applies to ore refining, which means the character is cross-trained.

why would anyone want a perfect noctis pilot? you need like 15 days to get 90% of the efficiency and after that just train combat like any sane person....


Just pointing out that the OP's rant of "I spent years training to be a perfect salvager" are exaggeration. Salvaging V, science V, and ORE industrial III take 25 days with no implants.



Speaking of implants, I forgot to mention: +4 implants and remaps would significantly reduce training times. The time for perfect reprocessing skills with a mem/intel mapping drops from 70 days to 50. Skilling to a perfect noctis on the same mapping would take 40. So to achieve what the OP claims shouldn't take but 3-4 months of solid training, and 2/3 of that is useful for a lot more than just recycling loot.

So basically he's whining about training for metallurgy and scrapmetal processing for a month.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
General Abitis
Awoken Disintegration Fleet
#29 - 2012-06-06 20:45:13 UTC
you morons must be tripping if you all think when i said 2 years of training to be salvager means training my noctis and processing skills, i was referring to skills in combat, defensive, processing, salvaging, battleship skills, and drone skills, so you guys that are being idiots you can stop now
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-06-06 20:47:11 UTC
General Abitis wrote:
you morons must be tripping if you all think when i said 2 years of training to be salvager means training my noctis and processing skills, i was referring to skills in combat, defensive, processing, salvaging, battleship skills, and drone skills, so you guys that are being idiots you can stop now

so you wouldnt train combat skills? because thats how it sounds

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Ayame Tao
#31 - 2012-06-06 20:47:30 UTC
General Abitis wrote:
for most getting that battleship built without using isk to build it for new recruits is more important not the isk


For most? For none that I know of (which isn't all of them, granted...)

Taking enough time to salvage enough stuff to build a Battleship could easily have been spent getting more bounties and ISK by running more missions than stopping to salvage and would pay for 2 or 3 battleships easily in the same time.

Pretty much the only reason to stop and salvage is because you want to. There's no efficiency in it at all. I salvage everything most of the time, but I keep Meta 4 stuff for outfitting and invention and refine stuff and salvage for knocking up rigs for fun.

To allude that salvaging is a benefit or a profession is a stretch IMO. But that was the problem. Everyone and his dog were drowning in minerals from refined loot so anybody doing mining as a profession was massively wasting their time.

Because mining now has value, you can see the sheer number of attempts to control the mineral market through ganking etc.
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#32 - 2012-06-07 16:21:27 UTC
IIshira wrote:
General Abitis wrote:
Okay this i just can't stop being pissed over, I've been playing eve for 4 years now, I trained for 4 years to be perfected in mission running but 2 years ago i decided to train to become a mission salvager so i can start running missions to reprocess the items to build battleships to sell on the markets, but ever since the Inferno CCP has put the screws to the whole point of training for 2 whole years to be a salvager, now they got it where mission wrecks that has loot is rare, and then the wrecks that actual has loot is useless loot like Drone AI or 1 piece of **** scrap metal, before i could run a Drone mission then reprocess 233 unit of zydrine 98 megacyte now i get 0 that


The changes are to benefit miners. Not too long ago you could mine more ore in a Raven doing level 4 missions than in a mining barge. Anyone would agree that isn't a good thing.




Confirm that this was true. Corp would have mining ops and I refused to attend...but would salvage/loot/reprocess all my missions and give that to the corp. CEO said that I 'mined' the most minerals...and not by a little bit either.
Richard C Hoagland
Anarchos Syndicate
#33 - 2012-06-08 01:04:02 UTC
Flying my Vargur seems far less worthwhile than it used to, that's for sure. The numbers have taken a notable hit with the multiple nerfs to mission loot. But it still adds up...just slower than before.

If things get nerfed much more, though, I will probably just switch to mission blitzing with a Mach or something.
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#34 - 2012-06-08 06:42:25 UTC
Hans Tesla wrote:
General Abitis wrote:
Tirade

Stop running drone missions. I regularly ninja salvage Level 4 Guristas and pull 10+M ISK in modules alone, not to mention salvage components for rigs.

CCP saw fit to rebalance the dynamic that mission runners were able to do a better, more efficient job of acquiring minerals than miners. Until rocks start giving bounties, I don't think you really have much to complain about.



You mean... ninja looting

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#35 - 2012-06-08 06:46:41 UTC
General Abitis wrote:
you morons must be tripping if you all think when i said 2 years of training to be salvager means training my noctis and processing skills, i was referring to skills in combat, defensive, processing, salvaging, battleship skills, and drone skills, so you guys that are being idiots you can stop now



You don't reprocess salvaged parts... you reprocess loot.

This thread has salvaging and looting all mixed up. Soon somebody will whine that OMG 1 month Alt can scan down my kronos on a t1 frigate.... then somebody will get creative, and can flip the container with the mission item ....

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-06-08 11:03:36 UTC
Anytime you try to help one group another one is going to cry. I think CCP realizes that you can't make everyone happy. Don't get me wrong if you don't like something by all means complain... I do!

I don't agree with what a lot that CCP has done lately but I do agree with the loot changes. Oh BTW currently all of my income is from missions so it hurts my wallet too.

High sec miners have always gotten the "shaft". CCP designed the Hulk where it costs 250 mil ISK, takes months to train but it's so paper thin someone on a trial account can suicide gank it with a Destroyer. You can tank them a little but that just means maybe two or three Destroyers.

I used to mine in a Hulk but when I realized how boring it was, how little ISK I was making and to top it off suicide ganking so I went back to missions. Yes mission ships are ganked but most of the victims are newer pilots who foolishly buy shiny modules with PLEX/ ISK to make up for their lack of skills. Mining ships are ganked for the LOLz.
savannah katt
Trigon Escort Services
#37 - 2012-06-11 01:59:17 UTC
Quote:

Not being funny or anything, but I have 190m worth of meta 3/4 items from loot sitting in my hanger. You don't need to refine everything these days. I use the meta 4 in invention and so do lots of others. Check out the buy orders on market.


I have a can thats worth almost 200mil as well and I'm just ramming L3 missions 2 at a time...kind of like the "select all", then look a the est value.
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