Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Thanks

Ever heard of the American west, why do you think everyone had a gun? :p

I am not saying its perfect, but we made alot of progress using capitalism and banking. Yeah there were some great bank heists beyond just cowboys from western movies, read up on credit mobilier scandal from the 19th century, a few bankers were able to get away with what amounts to today is billions. 2007-2008 was not the first time. As long as greed exists beyond normal conventions, wherever you are, there will be crime. However, we don't let one bad experience sour everything. We rebuild and keep growing despite it. The railroads later were incorporated under industrialists and banks were restructured.

"Greed is for lack of a better word is good" in small doses. Banking focuses this greed into something extremely productive.

Let me ask my naysayers, do you know how much it costs to set up a research POS in high sec? Do you know how much it costs to set up a manufacturing array in low sec or null sec? Do you know how much it costs to set up stations in sovereign systems? How much does it take to buy a super cap carrier? or a Titan?

Smaller alliances and large corporations will spend a good deal of time devoted to making, begging, or even trying to find a backer for isk that may not always work out.

What a dedicated banking systems gives them is a real chance to make it, if they need financing and meet standard requirements set up by an individual bank, i.e. collateral value, interest agreements, strength of members, and positioning. A Nullsec alliance in Providence in the midst of a war would not likely get financing easily without high interest rates for example. That's only reflecting loans, we're not even into investing arm of banks yet.

The best way to fight is based on the quality of your men and the quality of weapons, smaller alliances and corporations might have the manpower, but lack the resources for war. Banking offers to give you the back up financing to buy those weapons of war, if you seek to and even arrange for deals of surrender more amicably between parties as the middle man. Money should be a deadly weapon in eve, even more lethal than the old Doomsday weapons.

As I said in terms of investment, expansion of demand when cash is sitting still is not efficient, so an increase in demand will actually increase capital within the market, i.e. for those that study economics, Eve is operating not at the optimal point between supply and demand in terms of capital so by moving demand up to a certain point your actually raising cash flow within your market. You can have smart investment eve players buying and selling goods, even speculating into the tens of billions of isk. You can devalue the price of tritanium from 5-6 isk right now at jita to 2-3 isk or raise it to 10 isk per trit.

The possibility for good and bad is endless.

You sound like a university english major... sorry. :)
I work at a wall street bank. And in short, your diatribe sounds very academic, but not applicable to this game.

Actually no, banks will be working for making money over the long haul from depositors funds.

As I said it depends on their lending policies, some banks will be foolish and loan out a ton of money to bad investments and others will be very narrow minded and loan only to the big alliances that can afford it.

For example, If AAA wants to take up a loan to fight NCdot, a bank could ask for AAA to put down collateral like items or even a fleet of machariels. If AAA does not repay the bank on its interest and principal, the bank automatically takes the collateral as its property.

Small corporations can take loans, but they need a collateral and proof that they can repay the loans. A noob high sec corp for instance will not likely be able to have a loan. However, an established research corp with blueprints as collaterals would be able to buy themselves a high sec research POS and maybe a few other things to make tech 2 bpc and more isk.

As for what Collateral must be able to meet a proportion of the loan:

If you want 1 Billion isk and collateralize a macharial, fine, your ship is worth more than the loan, no issue about it.

If you want 2 billion and collateralize a macharial, some banks won't give you a loan and those that do should be smart enough to charge you a higher rate of interest in case you're a dead beat.

Case and point, unless you're really bad at handling money, which bankers who chose this profession should not be, you would never loan someone isk without expecting reimbursement.

As for the biggest issues you guys keep pointing out, enforcement:

1. Set up a deposit insurance system to protect bank accounts up to an amount like 1 billion isk.

2. Make sure investment and loans meet reserve requirements aka no bank can take out all their money at once on a foolish investment, nor pay their CEO a exorbitant amount. I like the reserve requirement idea proposed earlier with a sliding scale up to 40-50% of all deposits be invested or only 10%. US Banks in the real world do have reserve requirements set by the US federal reserve, so I don't see a problem if CCP does the same based on a sliding scale, heck it might even solve their inflation issue.

3. Banks cannot have inactive leadership, if a bank leader, i.e. CEO or director of investment is inactive for more than 1 week, his position is voided automatically and depositors choose the new replacement from remaining members of the bank in a vote, simple majority wins. Leadership in banks aren't based on the old shares value that corporations are running on, but a depositor based system more common with co-op banks than their larger wall street cousins,

4. Banks cannot transfer any of their assets or cash into corporations, they can only transfer if there exists a loan involved and collateral is approved. Of course everything is limited due to the reserve requirement.

5. All depositors will have informational access to the status of the bank's current fiscal condition, i.e. how much money they have, how much they have in outstanding investment and loans, and what they have internally in assets both collateral and potential collateral. (CCP doesn't need to do much on this, a simple API tweak can allow this thing easily)

Banks are not regular corporations, they should never be treated as a regular corporation or else you will have ugly problems like EIB.

Why not move those Macherials to high-sec and sell them directly to the market? Your way just sounds horribly convoluted and more of a headache in the long run.


Problem: you can't prove anything in an imaginary spaceship game. Trust is gained through word of mouth. And even then it is suspect (because the people vouching for you might be "in" on the scam.


So I take out a loan that is double that of the Macherial I put down as collateral on an alt character. Once I have the money... I buy two Macherials, fly them out to safespot, "abandon" them, and then have trusted friends (or other alts) pick them up.
And no... the system cannot differentiate between someone doing this by accident and getting REALLY unlucky or someone who does this on purpose. Plus, I believe repackaging an item resets its database ID... so you literally CAN'T track it through the system.

I was under the impression that ISK was electronic, deposited in a Secure Commerce Commission bank account, and that they assess sales tax and broker's fees and such when selling, placing buy orders, creating/completing contracts, etc.

I was further under the impression that my wallet transactions are an electronic bank statement, etc.

ISK has never struck me as a physical currency carried around in an actual "wallet".

this dude trolled this **** out of all of you

10/10

stop replying and let it die.

haha you just wished you had started it first.

As for each point,

1. Most banks won't loan unless you had collateral worth equal or less than loan, the ones that do loan are equivalent to subprime lenders that still exist despite what happened in 2007. The only difference is in my system no one is too big to fail.

If you pull that trick, you'll not be allowed back into any bank again until loan is repaid, no such thing as bankruptcy. Also, credit history in eve will be based on corporation and character history. You want to defraud an eve bank, you better pull a huge heist as you're wasting years on an alt for one big score. Small banks with like 500bill would be crappy spots to cheat as their loans are small, you'll need to banks with 5 trillion or more to make the the eve time paid to the account worth it with one fake loan out of hundreds of real ones for an amount exceeding 7 billion or 1 yr worth of plex + inflation.

2. Why transfer to get a loan instead of selling an item or in my example a fleet of machariels? Simple, how long does it take to jump up to high sec, put up a huge order, and get a buyer for 10 billion isk worth of machs? Unless you're in a hot market, it can take days to unload. My banking system cuts it down to minutes.

You learned isk/hr value at some point, isn't my idea easier and cost effective.

3. Said it before capitalism is not fair or nice, its just progress. Don't blame the banks for your credit card bills or bad loan terms.

4. Isk is more like hard currency as the money is private and not invested outside the owner's desire. Which is one reason why a shift in demand in eve market can effect money supply in eve as we're sitting on cash most of the time.

You guys only point out negatives to eve banking, or saying its impossible to solve. Well let me call you out, how would you create a banking infrastructure in eve? Even if you don't think its possible. If you have better idea, fine relate it.

I'm an accountant not a banker, big difference.

Actually the last post was answers and explain why it's better. The Mechanics were already outlined earlier in one of my long posts. (I should have gone into programming to be honest), examples of innovations and suggestions i.e. A separate class of incorporation, fixed reserve amounts for isk as applied by CCP, the whole loan system with collateral as the basis, new rules for leadership under a co-op basis instead of share structure, and so on....

Hell, I even pointed out that transparency is needed with a small tweak to API keys, which is very doable for CCP.

Look like you weren't paying attention as I had outlined everything and how it'd work.

That explains the naive view of the banking system you are presenting.

PS I *am* a banker :)