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Why do miners not love hulkageddon?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#61 - 2012-06-06 10:22:01 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
It's simple: there's no profit to be made. Only ones profiting from this event are gankers.
…and miners, and manufacturers, and traders, and… well… everyone.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-06-06 10:28:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
It's simple: there's no profit to be made. Only ones profiting from this event are gankers.
…and miners, and manufacturers, and traders, and… well… everyone.


Catalyst, blaster, blaster ammo, Tornado, arty, EMP L... all prices drop. Where do you see profit?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#63 - 2012-06-06 10:29:26 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Catalyst, blaster, blaster ammo, Tornado, arty, EMP L... all prices drop. Where do you see profit?
It's called “planning”.
nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-06-06 10:37:38 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:
Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.

Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.

So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free.


first off high sec yes a starting area 1.0 high sec that is.

Low sec and 0.0 pilots same to forget one thing about high sec if not for high sec's like jita,rens,dodixe and other high sec system were would you resupply your 0.0 corps/allinace how many jump freigher are seen daily jumping out of said systems with weapons,ammo and there others needs for 0.0 life are there trade hubs that big in low sec or 0.0 no there not for the reason high sec is safer to get what you need.

Were to you think all that stuff comes from well lets see yes from 0.0 some from low sec most other then stuff need to build cap ships and t2 and officer and high end faction gear it all comes from people like the ones getting ganked in high sec build the all that gear you use.

low sec and 0.0 could not work with out high sec players and if your that blind not to see that your a moron.

I hear player say get rid of high sec ok find oh wait there went all the nice high sec trade hubs for your corp/alliance to get resupplyed at.

In ending sure kill the miners and mission runners what will happen the game market witch is f's btw would get worse and higher in price. Btw killing high would kill the high end and officer markets no one would spend that killed of isk just to get gank by a blob.

Ive flown in 0.0 and low sec i do pvp but most of the time i pvp on my terms not some jackass's terms even under war dec its my terms when i deside to poke my head out and fire at a target.

o.o and low sec pilots get off your high horse your kill board dont do a damn thing for me other then show you like to pvp and in most case's in large numbers were you feel safer larger the fleets less likey you be the next one shot.
keep ganking hulks and other high sec pilots like you are and more players will quit the game given how the markets looking if it keeps up ill call it a dead game in less then a year. And all thanks to morons like you and goons.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-06-06 10:44:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It's called “planning”.


You mean buying Covetor BPOs/BPCs and Hulk BPCs.

Again, gankers would profit from that.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#66 - 2012-06-06 10:58:12 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Again, gankers would profit from that.
…and miners, and industrialists, and traders.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#67 - 2012-06-06 10:59:58 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
It's simple: there's no profit to be made. Only ones profiting from this event are gankers.
…and miners, and manufacturers, and traders, and… well… everyone.


Catalyst, blaster, blaster ammo, Tornado, arty, EMP L... all prices drop. Where do you see profit?


Have you looked at ships and min costs recently ?


Tal
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-06-06 11:04:47 UTC
About dynamic PvE content:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=115357&find=unread

Feel free to drop by and poke some holes in my idea.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-06-06 11:16:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Have you looked at ships and min costs recently ?


Yes, mins did go up a lot recently, but now are going down again.

Catalyst and Tornado going down fast.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#70 - 2012-06-06 11:22:50 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Have you looked at ships and min costs recently ?


Yes, mins did go up a lot recently, but now are going down again.

Catalyst and Tornado going down fast.


That was going to happen anyway, Hi sec miners have got more canny, and there would come a point where the industrialists that stocked up ganking ships during Hulkaggeddon are suddenly finding they aren't selling as many as suicide ganks are probably dropping in numbers due to less hulks flown, gankers getting bored and miners getting smart, leading to over supply.

Tal
Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
#71 - 2012-06-06 11:47:52 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
I was actually looking forward to it, being hunted in highsec would have been fun, because it would have been sort of like nul, except no need to be super involved with your alliance. P


you've obviously never been to null. thats carebear/bot land. you are more safer in null then you are empire. plenty and plenty of empty, unused space where you will be lucky to see a single person pass through that day. its carebear central.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-06-06 12:07:37 UTC
Covert Kitty wrote:

Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)

they complain. Not sure if they whine less than your miners do.

They complain not about D-Scan or loosing of shiny ships. They whine about local (did you see miner whining about it?), they whine about FW (did you see miners whining about it?), they whine about "no risk in high-sec" (did you see miners whining about it?), sov, weapons, ships, etc...etc... etc...

Everybody whine. Reasons differ but whining won't end....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jalabaster
Aether Ventures
#73 - 2012-06-06 13:23:57 UTC
Covert Kitty wrote:
Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?


Bingo. The serious miners are out there, mining. They are smart enough to minimize risk, and enjoy the current economic situation. End of story.

Smart hisec miners likely have some experience with living in areas outside of hisec. They know how to read local, d-scan, a plethora of other things about combat, egagement, timers, and a better understanding of dynamic traffic flow patterns. They are simply better prepared than their peers in the same career field.

And why should they post and give up their tricks? Nay, you come to the forums to cry, not to give away your trade secrets.

"when a ship is blown up, the pilot usually winds up replacing it. This drives the economy, steadies inflation, and gives industrialists a reason to manufacture. In contrast, creating isk while never losing any items has the unfortunate reverse effect on the market, plus it isn't really any fun." Jala
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#74 - 2012-06-06 13:41:00 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
It's simple: there's no profit to be made. Only ones profiting from this event are gankers.
…and miners, and manufacturers, and traders, and… well… everyone.



Don't forget refiners. Rising mineral prices makes us very happy.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-06-06 13:44:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian
Covert Kitty wrote:
It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?

So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?

Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)

So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is.


I think mostly it's the violation of the "Empire is relatively safer" idea. Any carebear who plays EVE beyond the first month is reconciled to getting blown up occasionally. (The carebears of EVE are made of stern stuff :) ) But when it's a concerted campaign that's now ongoing, that's something different - then it's edging into something more like schoolyard bullying.

The economic arguments are absolutely correct, Hulkageddon is good for miners and good for the game, but there's also the aspect of the game being a form of relaxation for many players (again, granted that there's always going to be some risk).
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#76 - 2012-06-06 14:10:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Jalabaster wrote:
Covert Kitty wrote:
Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?


Bingo. The serious miners are out there, mining. They are smart enough to minimize risk, and enjoy the current economic situation. End of story.

Smart hisec miners likely have some experience with living in areas outside of hisec. They know how to read local, d-scan, a plethora of other things about combat, egagement, timers, and a better understanding of dynamic traffic flow patterns. They are simply better prepared than their peers in the same career field.

And why should they post and give up their tricks? Nay, you come to the forums to cry, not to give away your trade secrets.


Why on earth would such a player still mine?
And admitting it is for the compelling passion for digging, why would he be wasting all this expertise in hi sec for the pittance income? It makes no sense.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Velicitia
XS Tech
#77 - 2012-06-06 14:19:05 UTC
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
Covert Kitty wrote:
It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?

So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?

Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)

So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is.


I think mostly it's the violation of the "Empire is relatively safer" idea. Any carebear who plays EVE beyond the first month is reconciled to getting blown up occasionally. (The carebears of EVE are made of stern stuff :) ) But when it's a concerted campaign that's now ongoing, that's something different - then it's edging into something more like schoolyard bullying.

The economic arguments are absolutely correct, Hulkageddon is good for miners and good for the game, but there's also the aspect of the game being a form of relaxation for many players (again, granted that there's always going to be some risk).



I agree with this, except for the fact that we need a new title...

"Old" carebear (say '07-'09 era, may have been this way since the beginning, but I didn't start til '07) was the people who mined and ran missions, though (in my experience anyway) these people still knew/accepted that they could be violenced anywhere, at any time, for any reason. Essentially it was "PvPer" and "carebear", and for the most part people worked together for stuff.

There were more than a few times in my first 2-3 months that "hey [pilot] flipped my can, keep an eye out for him" was a common occurrence from the miners (myself included) ... and on nearly all of those occasions the mining people would gang up to share intel (in retrospect, a channel would have been better, but hey, was young and dumb then Smile)

"new" carebear -- for whatever reason are 100% averse to the idea that they can get (legally) violenced, and pretty much just scream to CCP to "fix" the "problem" with griefing or whatever. It's sad, actually.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Velicitia
XS Tech
#78 - 2012-06-06 14:19:45 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Jalabaster wrote:
Covert Kitty wrote:
Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?


Bingo. The serious miners are out there, mining. They are smart enough to minimize risk, and enjoy the current economic situation. End of story.

Smart hisec miners likely have some experience with living in areas outside of hisec. They know how to read local, d-scan, a plethora of other things about combat, egagement, timers, and a better understanding of dynamic traffic flow patterns. They are simply better prepared than their peers in the same career field.

And why should they post and give up their tricks? Nay, you come to the forums to cry, not to give away your trade secrets.


Why on earth would such a player still mine?
And admitting it is for the compelling passion for digging, why would he be wasting all this expertise in hi sec for the pittance income? It makes no sense.



Me, because it's relaxing.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#79 - 2012-06-06 14:26:37 UTC
The fact that all the attention paid to the game these days is in high sec says a lot about the situation in nullsec, IMO.

You'd think, given the tools provided by CCP, and the absolute freedom to forge your own empires, that all the focus would be on nullsec and what all the various alliances are doing there and who's at war with one another, and how the wars are progressing.

Nope.

All the focus is about blowing up miners in high sec (at least as far as the forums go).

Is this an adversion to actual risk thing, or a total stagnation in nullsec thing, or something else?

I recall in WoW, when things got stagnant in the endgame, folks would go to the newb areas or to lowbie towns to gank, until Blizzard reacted and put more security measures in place. This sort of thing faded away to some degree after that.

To me, the current behaviour is a big wake up call that the so called endgame is broken in some way. Could even be the playerbases doing, given the level of freedom we have with regard to nullsec gameplay. Seriously, given the scope of the game, doesn't anyone else find it kinda stupid we are playing blow up the bottom feeders in EvE online?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#80 - 2012-06-06 14:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ana Vyr wrote:
All the focus is about blowing up miners in high sec (at least as far as the forums go).

Is this an adversion to actual risk thing, or a total stagnation in nullsec thing, or something else?
A bit from column B, a bit from column C.

HG∞ is just the goons being bored because of the nullsec stagnation, and the leadership giving the kittens a new ball of yarn to play with to stave off that boredom. It's also a case of “we've been telling you that this whole tech thing is bad, but if you're not going to fix it, we're going to exploit have fun with it.”

On top of this, there's the “education” angle: the more people are clamouring for highsec to be safe, the more reason there is to not just say “no”, but to actually show it. The fact that this generates all kinds of forum rage and that this very directly tickles the funny-bones of a forum based community such as, say, SA, is just icing on the cake and provides yet another ball of yarn for the kittens to chase.