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Intergalactic Summit

 
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[SYNE] Information Appeal - Change in Incursion Tactics

Author
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#61 - 2012-05-25 19:35:49 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:


When we do, your planets and stations will burn. Absolute and total war will be upon us, and this time you will face Capsuleers in addition to the Empires.

Remember these incursions when you wonder why we've come calling at your homeworlds.

Remember this, and regret it.


Every single word of this that I have quoted can be applied in the other direction, Kat, I hope you know this. I hope you understand this as truly as I do. The difference between us is that we have already survived being burned down once. We have experience, and we know how to survive it.
Dilaro thagriin
Doomheim
#62 - 2012-05-25 20:51:58 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
We revere life above all things, rescue people who ask for it, and have no plans for a cultural genocide. Unlike, say, the cultural genocide the CONCORD signatories have already attempted to enact on Sansha's Nation.



ok then tibby...

a one word question for you.

Biomass??

you see i don't buy into the 'means to an end' bull that you and so many other nation supporters spout.

also, i have to agree with the others here who have asked how you justify ENTIRE planetary and station populations being taken... leaving pets behind to starve.

doesn't sound like the kind of things that people who were willingly leaving would do.

also it seems strange that all the security feeds in these places were cut before these so called 'rescues' surely if they were as benevolent as you claim your boss would have wanted people to see...

still... nation will be naught but ashes and memories soon enough.

-Dilaro
Dilaro thagriin
Doomheim
#63 - 2012-05-25 20:56:34 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Katrina Oniseki wrote:


When we do, your planets and stations will burn. Absolute and total war will be upon us, and this time you will face Capsuleers in addition to the Empires.

Remember these incursions when you wonder why we've come calling at your homeworlds.

Remember this, and regret it.


Every single word of this that I have quoted can be applied in the other direction, Kat, I hope you know this. I hope you understand this as truly as I do. The difference between us is that we have already survived being burned down once. We have experience, and we know how to survive it.



perhaps those words can be used to justify nation tib, but nation was the cause of the original onslaught. thousands upon thousands of people experimented upon, turned into slaves to a psychopath's will, and then turned against their kin.

and it repeats itself now.

Kuvakei, it seems, did not truly learn from his mistakes. and it is you and yours who will pay the price for his hubris.

we tried to help you, we tried to warn you.

nation has again sown the flame, it will once again reap the firestorm. and this time, the capsuleers will not relent as the empires once did.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#64 - 2012-05-25 21:10:18 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
I'll say this again to warn you, but it's not like you can do anything about it since you have no power over Nation.

The longer you keep attacking us, the more likely it is that we'll bring this war to your doorstep. It's not a matter of if, but when we will learn where your new home is and how to get there. Mark my words.

When we do, your planets and stations will burn. Absolute and total war will be upon us, and this time you will face Capsuleers in addition to the Empires.

Remember these incursions when you wonder why we've come calling at your homeworlds.

Remember this, and regret it.


They may try, but they will fail, the Nation is eternal, and i have faith in the master. The capsuleers and empires don't understand unity, but they will one way or another.
Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
#65 - 2012-05-25 23:24:34 UTC
It seems they are intent on signaling you out, Tiberious. Let us read together, hnn? Step by step... I am not fond of this method, but it is necessary.

---

To Ollie Rundle,

Greed is a strange motivator to apply to those who do not follow your contemporary economy, Mr. Rundle. That is an educational statement more than anything; for Division Capsuleer - the primary purpose was reducing taxation, but it was not the motivator. When we discovered the customs offices to not be capable of what we truly desired, their primary purpose was salvaged into the taxation reduction. Admittedly we are continuing to work on ways around their limitations, but it is troublesome. If re-purposing a failed endeavor is greed, you have bested my capabilities.


I do find your assertion on the lack of conviction particularly puzzling, as I would think SYNE well versed in our attendance of Nation activities when its requested. While we could provide auxiliary support to the Nation in their major operations, the simple truth is that we are not being actively requested. Our talents are more useful elsewhere - more work is being done for the Nation than what would be by augmenting a non-problem situation.


I do enjoy Sister Endoma01's passion, but I will have to postulate three ideas for you. The first being, considering your involvement in opposition of the Nation, you will naturally be inclined to situating on the extreme end of statements. The second idea, consider the motivations and feelings of Sister Endoma01 - particularly as a very old member of the Nation. My final postulation would be ... if the Messiah truly willed for the end of the galaxy, it would be very easy to do.

Many within the Nation and its aspirants have their own feelings about the rest of the galaxy. It would be improper for me to speak in Sister Endoma01's place, but to presume there is a rogue element in Nation is a self-gratification attempt at reassurance. We all strive to serve the Master's will and vision, in one form or another.

---

To N'maro Makari,

You would be factually incorrect in that Master Sansha betrayed the CONCORD signatories - they were the ones to initiate aggression. Unless you meant to be more obtuse in that He betrayed them by conducting His research, and they were merely retaliating ... but that is a illogical loop I have trouble understanding. It would require some baseline assertions that are contestably incorrect.


As to your 'smoking gun', there is a logical inconsistency. It is reliably proven that simply show casing those we rescue being in good health is not enough. You outsiders, in general, desire more evidence and means of asserting that our claims are genuine as you cannot overcome your fear that there is something horrible waiting. We could tangle up these uninvolved Normals in your constant pursuit to satisfy your own needs, or we could allow them to continue on with their lives. When one considers your unending desire for more, leaving the Normals undisturbed appears the wiser choice.

---

To Katrina Oniseki,

History will not repeat itself, Master Sansha and Nation have learned significantly. I will give you a thought on the matter, however. For the CONCORD signatories and many, the war a century ago ended in the presumption the Nation was totally annihilated. For the survivors, the horrors of the Great Invasion are still a very real memory. Yet rather than simply destroy all the signatories in the easiest way possible ... Nation seeks to preserve life, even of the guilty signatories.

I am admittedly curious if you will have a unusual position on the thought.

---


Ah, writing in this format is so ... guttural.

True Slave Foundations Overseer

ϕ

Ollie Rundle
#66 - 2012-05-25 23:47:08 UTC
Now that the thread has largely turned its eyes towards Tib's duplicitous Jekyll and Hyde shuffle - "Cultural Genocide? No, no, no ... We'll burn you down, we love peace so" ** - anyone wishing to contribute intel on the original post's observations is encouraged to contact myself or N'maro Makari through the usual channels or at the Seyllin conference this weekend.

** (( With apologies to Maurice Sendak ))
Dilaro thagriin
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-05-26 01:07:26 UTC
Still no answer...

"we want peace" they say...

yet for every nation member we slay, they claim that another human has been used to create their new clone. Where does this biomass come from? i cannot see it being peacefully obtained.

the answer is simple of course. planetary abductions. many of those who were taken did not go willingly, and were converted into the biomass that is used in nation rebirth centres.

this however does mean that nation's biomass stores are dwindling, even if they collect the dead of the battlefields in incursion sites to re-use. many of the crew of nation vessels will have been burned, exploded or atomised by the array of weaponry used against them.

this is a war of attrition. and nation is losing more than their capsuleer enemies, day after day.

All we have to do is keep it up and watch as the stock runs out, and slaves begin to die, permanently.

soon enough, only kuvakei and his 'true' slave commanders will be left. bound to his will as ever, and then.... nothing. Nation cannot survive the wrath of the empyreans. even divided as we are, we are more than a match.

Nation will soon be a mere footnote in the annals of megalomaniacal ineptitude.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#68 - 2012-05-26 10:29:50 UTC
Ghost Hunter wrote:

Ah, writing in this format is so ... guttural.


I agree.
Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-06-01 08:03:01 UTC
Actually, biomass of average grade can and is routinely harvested from other lifeforms beyond living humans. These sources can range from algae to livestock, as well as the practice of body mining. It should be noted that the sources I just mentioned are considered entirely legal and acceptable within all of Concord regulated space.

Further, with a sufficiently large database of genetic information, a sufficiently advanced understanding of biology, a sufficiently large enough pool of resources (energy and minerals), and a sufficiently plentiful supply of biomass, it is entirely possible to quite literally outperform Mother Nature. Engineering organisms first in simulation and then actually constructing those first few biological building blocks and allowing them to grow into a tailor-made organism ideally suited for a task. In some cases these engineered organisms can do things our machines simply aren't well suited for doing.

Knowing that, and assuming Nation would expand beyond the current gate network, it's not hard to imagine that Nation may not even need to procure personnel or biomass from the rest of New Eden at all. Which does really only leave the two other obvious reasons for continued Incursions. Revenge and preemptive pacification of a known threat to it's security, which honestly aren't specifically separate reasons.

As for the apparent change in Nation tactics, well considering how many times the debate has previously gone to making assumptions about Nation's intent based on the fact that the (possibly failing) tactics didn't change, I find this to be...refreshing.
Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#70 - 2012-06-01 09:31:26 UTC
Dilaro thagriin wrote:
Still no answer...

How do you make a blind man see or a deaf man hear?

Quote:
"Our flaws and faults, these near-indelible errors pervading throughout human history, they can all be removed. Together, as one, we can overcome the enemy within."
- Sansha Kuvakei

The ethical breaches of Kuvakei's machinations cannot be ignored, but neither should it's moral insight.
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#71 - 2012-06-01 12:23:27 UTC
A counter-offensive, the first of its kind in a century-long war, does not constitute a pre-emptive strike.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#72 - 2012-06-01 12:56:56 UTC
Natalcya Katla wrote:
A counter-offensive, the first of its kind in a century-long war, does not constitute a pre-emptive strike.


Welcome home?
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#73 - 2012-06-03 12:10:17 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:


*Update 1: Rumours that Incursion forces are targeting capsules are untrue (tested by Mitara Newelle, PIE Inc.).


For her actions during this engagement, Admiral Newelle has today been awarded with the Order of the Golden Shield.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#74 - 2012-06-04 15:04:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberious Thessalonia
Rodj Blake wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:


*Update 1: Rumours that Incursion forces are targeting capsules are untrue (tested by Mitara Newelle, PIE Inc.).


For her actions during this engagement, Admiral Newelle has today been awarded with the Order of the Golden Shield.


Er. Why? She's immortal. There is no real bravery involved in this.

Edit: Not that I am deriding admiral Newelle's bravery. During the PIE/TS-F war she was one of the few who came to find us. Im more curious about this specific act being worthy of it.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#75 - 2012-06-04 22:28:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
At this point this info should be wide spread thru defense forces but it still can hold value to pilots that are considering stepping up their operations to combat nation assaults strikes.

For reason that is unknown and still under investigation,new tier 3 battle-cruisers of all race's are able to access gates that are lock to cruiser class hulls and under.This brings huge advantage to pod-pilots that choose to field them boosting the moral and fleet effectiveness.

Some of my pilots swear by talos,and is certainly better to have your pilots state that they"feel like wolves among the sheep's" than other way around.

Regards.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#76 - 2012-06-06 10:33:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:


*Update 1: Rumours that Incursion forces are targeting capsules are untrue (tested by Mitara Newelle, PIE Inc.).


For her actions during this engagement, Admiral Newelle has today been awarded with the Order of the Golden Shield.


Er. Why? She's immortal. There is no real bravery involved in this.

Edit: Not that I am deriding admiral Newelle's bravery. During the PIE/TS-F war she was one of the few who came to find us. Im more curious about this specific act being worthy of it.


Even though cloning technology means that death is often only temporary, there's still an emotional response to danger that has to be overcome.

It's easy to overcome that response when you're surrounded by thousands of tons of tritanium and enough firepower to melt a city.

It's a different matter when you willingly warp into the middle of a hostile force in an unarmed pod and then wait around to see if they will shoot at you or not.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#77 - 2012-06-06 11:00:22 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:


*Update 1: Rumours that Incursion forces are targeting capsules are untrue (tested by Mitara Newelle, PIE Inc.).


For her actions during this engagement, Admiral Newelle has today been awarded with the Order of the Golden Shield.


Er. Why? She's immortal. There is no real bravery involved in this.

Edit: Not that I am deriding admiral Newelle's bravery. During the PIE/TS-F war she was one of the few who came to find us. Im more curious about this specific act being worthy of it.


Even though cloning technology means that death is often only temporary, there's still an emotional response to danger that has to be overcome.

It's easy to overcome that response when you're surrounded by thousands of tons of tritanium and enough firepower to melt a city.

It's a different matter when you willingly warp into the middle of a hostile force in an unarmed pod and then wait around to see if they will shoot at you or not.


Except that its not the ship that brings the bravery. The crews of your ships? They're brave, even though they are wrapped in "thousands of tons of tritanium and enough firepower to melt a city". The captain though, is shielded not by the ship, but by clinical immortality.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#78 - 2012-06-06 11:35:40 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:

Except that its not the ship that brings the bravery. The crews of your ships? They're brave, even though they are wrapped in "thousands of tons of tritanium and enough firepower to melt a city". The captain though, is shielded not by the ship, but by clinical immortality.


I agree with your indication that the crew of capsuleer vessels are often very brave.

There is no crew aboard a capsule, however.

Furthermore, as you agree with, our immortality is clinical and there is always a chance that something will go wrong in the process, this has happened before and may happen again. If you flirt with Death too many times....

The point is that putting yourself to the flame willingly requires bravery, clinical immortality or not.

~Malcolm Khross

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#79 - 2012-06-06 12:01:06 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:


Except that its not the ship that brings the bravery. The crews of your ships? They're brave, even though they are wrapped in "thousands of tons of tritanium and enough firepower to melt a city". The captain though, is shielded not by the ship, but by clinical immortality.


You sound bitter that someone chose to conclusively prove your rumour wrong.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#80 - 2012-06-06 12:22:28 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:


Except that its not the ship that brings the bravery. The crews of your ships? They're brave, even though they are wrapped in "thousands of tons of tritanium and enough firepower to melt a city". The captain though, is shielded not by the ship, but by clinical immortality.


You sound bitter that someone chose to conclusively prove your rumour wrong.


I wasn't aware I was spreading a rumour?