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Why T2 laser charges have so bad tracking?
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Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#1 - 2012-06-06 05:34:35 UTC
Hello,
I saw that T2 laser charges have a good firepower, but they also have a very very bad Tracking.
So I am not sure that is possible to touch something with.
I would like to understand if there are truly useful or not.

Is there someone too tell me?

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2012-06-06 06:00:08 UTC
All T2 ammo except short range ammo for long range guns has poor tracking. The long range ammo for short range guns is very much worthwhile across the board, and the short range short gun ammo is situationally awesome. And if you're firing lasers, you really ought to be packing multiple crystals anyhow.
Kaikka Carel
Ziea
#3 - 2012-06-06 06:06:17 UTC
The problem is more so evident on lasers due to their initial poor tracking. The situation even comes to that in medium category an Imperial Navy Multifrequency would be better than Conflagration.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#4 - 2012-06-06 09:16:22 UTC
I find them very effective (I mean awesome) against target with larger sig radius than turret sig res.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#5 - 2012-06-06 09:32:07 UTC
Depends on laser type, some have good tracking for their use. Apart from that, lasers get good range and dps so they have to rebalance that somewhere, in this case tracking.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#6 - 2012-06-06 10:00:57 UTC
T2 Pulse Lasers are one of the best weapon systems (especially if fitted on Slicers). With Scorch you have an awesome range and damage, if you need tracking then you can switch within a second to Faction Ammo which gives you even more damage with good tracking and good range. What the f*** do you need more? They are already close to be the I-Win button.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-06-06 11:18:12 UTC
The first reply was the best.
Pulse lasers have worst tracking of all short range weapons so the issue is most obvious there. Avoid conflagration until you know what you're doing. Scorch is very good though due to range/dps combination.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#8 - 2012-06-06 11:53:14 UTC
If you compare Lasers with Hybrid and Projectiles do you find them balanced?
I saw that lasers have great great optimal, so the DPS will be 100% at Mid range good compared to a projectile weapon that optimal is bad. But the Projectiles Weapon have more DPS, Mores Tracking, and do not need Power to shoot. So In Short Range lasers seems to be poor, if I well understood

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#9 - 2012-06-06 15:00:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Meditril
Do the math, unbonused laser weapon do around 20% more damage than unbonused projectiles. This the reason why the few dps-oriented minmatar ships have a double bonus on projectiles. Without this double bonus projectile damage would be far lower than single bonused laser damage.

BTW: If you think that laser are so bad, just name me one minmatar frigate which can spit out the same damage like a slicer having at the same time the speed, tracking and weapon range of a slicer.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-06-06 15:40:48 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Hello,
I saw that T2 laser charges have a good firepower, but they also have a very very bad Tracking.
So I am not sure that is possible to touch something with.
I would like to understand if there are truly useful or not.

Is there someone too tell me?


I'm sure GoonWiki has all the answers to this. You should take a look at, interesting stuff Blink

brb
Unimaginative Guy
Dutch Squad
#11 - 2012-06-06 18:19:58 UTC
Meditril wrote:
Do the math, unbonused laser weapon do around 20% more damage than unbonused projectiles. This the reason why the few dps-oriented minmatar ships have a double bonus on projectiles. Without this double bonus projectile damage would be far lower than single bonused laser damage.

BTW: If you think that laser are so bad, just name me one minmatar frigate which can spit out the same damage like a slicer having at the same time the speed, tracking and weapon range of a slicer.


Im sure some gimpy wolf fit or an arty jag might come close lol
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-06-06 18:23:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Hello,
I saw that T2 laser charges have a good firepower, but they also have a very very bad Tracking.
So I am not sure that is possible to touch something with.
I would like to understand if there are truly useful or not.

Is there someone too tell me?



let me present you the scorch pulsepoc. death to anything in a radius up to 90km.

even frigates if you manage to plink them on ranges above 40km or so.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#13 - 2012-06-07 06:21:48 UTC
Thank you, these answers are really interestening.
And yes there are answers on goonwiki ;-)
But I wanted another point of view.

I love Amarr ships, but I find them really difficult to fit to fight Matar Ships in small fights.

Lasers drain my capacitor so I must have a capacitor booster, armor tanked ship cannot choose the fight range, cannot choose their fights in fact.

Confraglation charges seems not be able to touch any matar ships...

So I try to find the best way to use my Amarr ships. I fly Minmatar and Caldari too that is not the problem.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#14 - 2012-06-07 06:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Don't... use... Conflag...

It hurts your tracking which you really don't want when fighting a fast&small sig radius target. Laserboats generally have issues up close&solo engagements (tracking, cap use on running MWD together with lasers and a lack of control due to limited midslots) but they excel at mid range which is what mostly happens in fleets. Win some lose some, you can't have it all.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#15 - 2012-06-07 15:03:54 UTC
Unimaginative Guy wrote:
Meditril wrote:
Do the math, unbonused laser weapon do around 20% more damage than unbonused projectiles. This the reason why the few dps-oriented minmatar ships have a double bonus on projectiles. Without this double bonus projectile damage would be far lower than single bonused laser damage.

BTW: If you think that laser are so bad, just name me one minmatar frigate which can spit out the same damage like a slicer having at the same time the speed, tracking and weapon range of a slicer.


Im sure some gimpy wolf fit or an arty jag might come close lol


First, Arty Wolf/Jaguar are T2 Ships... and second while with the Wolf you can achieve similar DPS at this range you will be slower, less agile and have significant less tracking due to using arty (and not autocannons which would match pulse lasers) than a slicer.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-06-07 15:21:24 UTC
Meditril wrote:
Do the math, unbonused laser weapon do around 20% more damage than unbonused projectiles. This the reason why the few dps-oriented minmatar ships have a double bonus on projectiles. Without this double bonus projectile damage would be far lower than single bonused laser damage.

BTW: If you think that laser are so bad, just name me one minmatar frigate which can spit out the same damage like a slicer having at the same time the speed, tracking and weapon range of a slicer.


Scorch is very good. Lasers without scorch are very subpar. Range isn't the best attribute for short ranged weapon systems until you start talking BS'es or some exceptions. As an example, the Slicer does offer nice dps/speed/range but the Firetail will kill it most days of the week.
Idicious Lightbane
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-06-07 16:47:23 UTC
What makes lasers awsome is Scorch, there isn't a weapon system that compares in damage projection to pulses loaded with scorch. Insane optimal range for short range weapons, delivering 100% of the actual damage since you aren't in falloff like you would be with minmatar.

A zealot can be fit to an optimal range of 50km loaded with scorch, with some 500 dps. Within 50km you will apply that full DPS, while say a cane while it has more dps on paper will be doing a good deal less than that most of the time.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#18 - 2012-06-08 10:17:55 UTC
Idicious Lightbane wrote:
What makes lasers awsome is Scorch, there isn't a weapon system that compares in damage projection to pulses loaded with scorch. Insane optimal range for short range weapons, delivering 100% of the actual damage since you aren't in falloff like you would be with minmatar.

A zealot can be fit to an optimal range of 50km loaded with scorch, with some 500 dps. Within 50km you will apply that full DPS, while say a cane while it has more dps on paper will be doing a good deal less than that most of the time.


It is a problem if only Scorch Charges make lasers interestening.
At because no beam laser can use them.

Perharps CCP should think about T2 laser charges and re-vamp them?

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#19 - 2012-06-08 11:33:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Meditril
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Idicious Lightbane wrote:
What makes lasers awsome is Scorch, there isn't a weapon system that compares in damage projection to pulses loaded with scorch. Insane optimal range for short range weapons, delivering 100% of the actual damage since you aren't in falloff like you would be with minmatar.

A zealot can be fit to an optimal range of 50km loaded with scorch, with some 500 dps. Within 50km you will apply that full DPS, while say a cane while it has more dps on paper will be doing a good deal less than that most of the time.


It is a problem if only Scorch Charges make lasers interestening.
At because no beam laser can use them.

Perharps CCP should think about T2 laser charges and re-vamp them?


No need to do any rework, beam lasers are good as they are. Just check the facts in a comparision of a Beam Laser with an similar Arty:

Medium Beam Laser II:
Tracking Speed: 0.1
Optimal Range: 12 km
Fall Off: 4 km

280mm Howitzer Artillery II:
Tracking Speed: 0.066 (this is more than 30% less then the Beam laser!)
Optimal Range: 12 km
Fall Off: 8.75 km

As you can see the Artillary is even subpar to the Beam laser with regards to tracking. Arty can only gain a little bit because of high fall off. But fighting in fall off reduces your damage significantly. Especially if you take into account that lasors generally have more dps than projectiles this is a more than fair trade. So stop whining.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#20 - 2012-06-08 12:11:05 UTC
Comparatively, lasers are the worse tracking turret. Make a petition to CCP and ask them why.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
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