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Revitalizing Lowsec
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Eiladies Teritrium
Survival Research Laboratories
#21 - 2012-05-31 02:54:20 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
This was done at one point. It was removed because it broke Eve. The End.

Read up on history if you want to know why or how it broke Eve.


Which was done at one point? All of it?
Leysritt
The Last Remnant
#22 - 2012-06-04 02:05:00 UTC
The problem I see with this is that majority of the population will cluster around one region.... cough.... Forge... cough.
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#23 - 2012-06-04 12:19:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Claire Raynor
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
XXSketchxx wrote:
I support low sec buffers between regions (10 systems deep at least).

Would be a nice buff to regional markets.


Cause a Null Sec blob perma-camping a key travel route is just so cool.


That'd never happen. (EDIT: this is a sarcastic comment btw).
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-06-06 08:17:57 UTC
Eiladies Teritrium wrote:
Well I do like the idea that there would be low-sec surrounding the empires. It makes me think of what happened in the dark ages.

However, it's not necessary to revitalize low-sec.

I think the way to get more people/ interest in low-sec is to stop thinking of it as 'insta-death zone' or even 'PvP' or 'Faction war zone'.

Instead, I would consider it the 'bad part of town'. Kind of dangerous, but kind of fun.

It's still Empire space after all, it's just the place that the governments of Empire have less reach and authority. Considering that both the Amarr and Caldari societies are authoritarian Police states, don't you imagine that the low security systems would seem like an attractive place for many people to live?

What I would suggest is this:

1. Gambling: Probably the oldest game in human history. There are already independent and unaffiliated EVE gambling for ISK sites spreading like a rash on the internet. CCP is missing out on HUGE interest and revenue with this. Some gambling sites make a fortune with nothing more than online roulette or poker. Just declare gambling illegal in high sec, and open up casinos in low sec. Watch the miners come to spend their money in the low sec casinos. Just make sure the gambling games stick with the EVE theme please.

2. Pleasure Centers: Ditto.

3. Black Markets: It seems like there was a half-hearted effort to start this in EVE, then it got pulled. EVE needs a black market, with smuggling, etc. These would be trade hubs for illegal goods not available in high sec, like drugs, pirate faction things, and so on.

Have you noticed you can buy 'Blood Raider' ships in Amarr Emperor Station? Really? How is that possible? To me that seems as likely as selling a Satanic death metal T-shirt on the streets of Riyahd in Saudi Arabia.

Stuff that is contraband should ONLY be available for sale at black market stations located in low sec. That includes stuff like slaves, drugs, Pirate faction ships AND IMPLANTS. Maybe it would be possible to sell contraband stuff in high sec through contracts, but it shouldn't be possible though the high-sec market system.

Smuggling: There are a lot of people in EVE that would love to be smugglers, but currently there is nothing to smuggle, it's not very profitable, and the customs officer mechanism doesn't work very well. Even hauling sucks as a career, ISK wise. Smuggling should be ten times as lucrative as hauling and ten times the fun. Make it so that agents in high sec are addicted to things like drugs, and give you a bonus if you can get them some 'crash'.

'Dark side' : I would argue that low-sec is the 'dark side' of high sec. Not just an empty battlefield, but a mirror image of high sec's hidden, ugly side.

Settlement zones: Like Australia or colonial America, low-sec becomes a home to those persecuted in an authoritarian high-sec. Obviously, criminal is not always 'evil', such as the Amarrians that want to liberate the slaves for example, or Caldari socialists, or other peculiar factions. Just as high-sec is split up into various regions (such as the holders, etc), so too would low-sec be split into different 'territories', each with it's own story and culture. There could be weird religious cults in low-sec too, and of course it would be a storyline mission to discover these cults and deal with them.

Pirate Faction war: I would have the NPC Pirates such as the Guristas, etc. hold territories and form alliances that player pirates can join. This way, the Pirates would be fighting each other for territory as the militia does. I would also make it so the Pirates can capture stations too, just as the FW militias can.



All of these things were discussed alot a couple of years back in a thread titled OUTLAW, teh support was massive. CCP ignored it.
Devs got a few of the more colourful lowsec leaders to form a discussion group under the direction of Mynxee. We discussed things a little and when it became apparent CCP had no intention of taking any notice we left teh discussion.

My corp moved to nullsec after living in lowsec for years, because many of teh things coming in made lowsec even worse, capital blobs, 'roaming' pairs of supercaps. titans in lowsec, no income etc etc etc. Many of the old guard of lowsec eventually went to nullsec because to be honest there was no real reason not to.

We loved lowsec. We moved out because lowsec has NEVER had any attention given to it. FW was not the way to steer it. In itself a nice creation but that isnt what teh majority of people who lived in lowsec wanted. They wanted a unique gaem experience, as different from empire and nullsec as they are different to each other. Look up OUTLAW on teh old forums, it would have made lowsec awesome.

Also.. Incursion, they should be lowsec ONLY as it is the only place they make sense from a storyline perspective and it would be a thing that draws players there.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Eiladies Teritrium
Survival Research Laboratories
#25 - 2012-06-14 19:17:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Eiladies Teritrium
Oh, thanks for filling me in on all this.

Yes, I remember Mynxee and was a member of her brainstorming blog "Making Low-sec work". Yes, I made a lot of those same suggestions there too, and I think I even absorbed some of those ideas from Mynxee's blog.

I have no idea why CCP would just strait out ignore those ideas. I really think some or all of those are good ideas. It's a good way to get people out of over-crowded high-sec, and give them an alternative to Null-sec.

Considering pirates for a moment. Low-sec is pretty much all about pirates and faction warfare.

Pirates from Earth history around 1600's were usually sailors from a country's Navy. Not everyone in the Navy was happy about it, and it wasn't always voluntary either. Sometimes you were knocked over the head and woke up on a ship in the Atlantic wearing a sailor's uniform. Ship mutinies were one way of dropping the shackles of state and belonging to a somewhat democratic crew of Pirates and finding new land to call your own.

If high-sec was overcrowded Monarchistic Europe, and null-sec was the undiscovered wilds of the American continent, then low-sec would have been those 'free ports' that were established, frequented and maintained by pirates. The emphasis here is on 'free ports', as in trade hubs in low-sec.

Despite the work that has gone into creating the backgrounds of the various Pirate factions (Blood Raiders, Guristas, etc.), a lot of Pirates at least seem to be two-dimensional. It's not even about ransom anymore, it's just about blowing up people's ships. Sure, there are some exceptions.

What low-sec SHOULD be is a place where high-sec dissidents move. The original thirteen colonies in America were a place where religious dissidents (i.e. Pilgrims) could settle without persecution. England at the time would have been 'safer', but like high-sec, was also crowded, heavily policed, with fewer opportunities. The American frontier was more dangerous, but a place where you could more easily make a living.

Similarly, there ARE some Amarrians who are abolitionists (or atheists), just as there are some Minmatar who are former slaves and still follow the Amarrian faith. These people would likely have difficulties fitting into their high-sec societies. The stories are there in some of the missions, they just haven't been developed far enough.

I guess CCP has decided low-sec should ONLY be for Faction war, which they have apparently improved upon slightly (and arguably).

Personally, I think the Low-sec only casinos and pleasure palace stations would really do it.

It makes sense to have Casinos and pleasure palaces in low-sec.

High-sec space is an authoritarian hellhole (at least Caldari and Amarr), and null-sec is too far away and too dangerous. Low-sec is close enough to safety and population for customers but far enough from the eyes of of the law. Drugs, gambling, slavery, brothels, and whatever else would be located here. Also, people LOVE smuggling, but there is no real smuggling mechanic in game. Why not make some smuggling missions that pay a lot more than regular boring courier missions, but are only available in low sec?

Casinos turned Las Vegas from a crossroads in the desert to a bustling city.

Casinos are planned for the space hotel under construction as a way to attract tourists into space. How else are you going to make a town in the desert or a space hotel a profitable venture? Nobody with money wants to invest that money in a risky venture, but they have no problems placing it all on a number on a roulette wheel.

There are already tons of 'EVE ISK' gambling casino applications independent of CCP. A casino would be both an ISK sink and an ISK faucet. It would be a real reason for high sec 'carebears' to come out to low-sec, and it would really help develop some more low-sec trade hubs.

EVE wants to be 'seedy and dark'? Well, consider where most of the seedy and dark stuff happens. It happens in a bar, on the 'bad side of town'. Mos Eisley's bar in Star Wars, Rick's place in Casablanca.

There would probably have to be some special storyline missions, maybe epic arcs in low sec systems too. These would only be available at the special 'Casino' stations. I would have missions based upon the 'dissidents' that moved out to low-sec, like the Amarrian abolitionists, Caldari socialist communes, Monasteries, cults, etc.

This is the same with every story, throughout human history. It is the heroic myth cycle in Joseph Conrad's ''The Hero with a thousand faces'. First, the hero is safe at home, then there is the 'call to adventure'. The hero refuses at first, but is drawn in. then he 'crosses the threshold' into adventure. That threshold should be low-sec.

The intrigue doesn't happen in High sec 'Mom's house', it doesn't happen in the middle of the null-sec 'haunted house', it happens in the 'low-sec' school yard where the kid is confronted and takes a challenge from the bully.

I don't know, maybe move the militia sign up office to low-sec?
Eiladies Teritrium
Survival Research Laboratories
#26 - 2012-06-14 19:25:58 UTC
[quote=Rico Minali

All of these things were discussed alot a couple of years back in a thread titled OUTLAW, teh support was massive. CCP ignored it.
Devs got a few of the more colourful lowsec leaders to form a discussion group under the direction of Mynxee. We discussed things a little and when it became apparent CCP had no intention of taking any notice we left teh discussion.

My corp moved to nullsec after living in lowsec for years, because many of teh things coming in made lowsec even worse, capital blobs, 'roaming' pairs of supercaps. titans in lowsec, no income etc etc etc. Many of the old guard of lowsec eventually went to nullsec because to be honest there was no real reason not to.

We loved lowsec. We moved out because lowsec has NEVER had any attention given to it. FW was not the way to steer it. In itself a nice creation but that isnt what teh majority of people who lived in lowsec wanted. They wanted a unique gaem experience, as different from empire and nullsec as they are different to each other. Look up OUTLAW on teh old forums, it would have made lowsec awesome.

Also.. Incursion, they should be lowsec ONLY as it is the only place they make sense from a storyline perspective and it would be a thing that draws players there. [/quote]

Yes, you are right in that it makes sense for Incursions to happen ONLY in low sec. What does 'low-sec' mean after all? Low security, not no security. You would also think that CONCORD would be right on top of their butts for invading the system, instead of making sure that people don't shoot each other.
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-06-15 20:01:43 UTC
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