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Why do miners not love hulkageddon?
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Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-06-06 01:57:00 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:
Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.

Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.

So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free.


Hi sec is not a starting area.

Hi sec does not consist of just 1.0 and .9 systems, it's all systems .6 up. (is .5 considered low or hi I can't rememer)

Null > 0.0 > low sec > high sec > starting system

The only starting areas, or systems, in the game are the ones that you start in as a new player. The moment you undock and leave that system, you've left the starting area.

In otherwords your wrote a bunch of words that amount to ****, you're wrong.
EVE Roy Mustang
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-06-06 02:15:48 UTC
Shea Valerien wrote:
Most of us do. Don't let the great minority
Mostly Goons
Quote:
of the mining population convince you otherwise.
Frying Doom
#43 - 2012-06-06 02:20:20 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Null > 0.0 > low sec > high sec > starting system

In otherwords your wrote a bunch of words that amount to ****, you're wrong.

You left out Worm Holes, you know the place for the elite players of EvE. Its almost completely Null bear free Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Bill Loney
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-06-06 02:21:31 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Null = 0.0 > low sec > high sec > starting system
Spineker
#45 - 2012-06-06 02:22:04 UTC
Isn't Bear a gay saying? Just asking. People just have to hunt down all those bears
RAP ACTION HERO
#46 - 2012-06-06 04:32:57 UTC  |  Edited by: RAP ACTION HERO
Spikeflach wrote:
Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.

Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.

So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free.


go back to the starting systems lol

vitoc erryday
Doctor Benway Kado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-06-06 05:21:15 UTC
ivar R'dhak wrote:
And jet can mining was also never envisioned by CCP.

My take is that miners have finally woken up to how utterly griefer-centric this game actually is.

Hulkageddon isn´t about some OZOM emergent PVP game play but simply exploiting an obvious oversight in ship balancing and game design.
It´s plain ridiculous that a a handful destroyers can so easily obliterate a supposedly hardy "HULK". Personally I´m actually grateful for the permanent Hulkageddon.
Either CCP fixes their effin game or they can start mining in Jove battlehips themselves to save the game´s economy from keeling over.

Hulks are too weak, huh?

Tell me, exactly how many warships should it take to destroy a single mining ship? Especially one fitted with no tank in under to maximize it's mining ability? 2? 4? Ten?

I'm gonna guess "Enough that I don't have to worry about losing my ~Max Yield~ Hulk in hi-sce, ever."
Knus'lar
Wormbro
The Society For Unethical Treatment Of Sleepers
#48 - 2012-06-06 06:04:49 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:
Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.

Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.

So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free.


EvE isnt most MMOs. And hi-sec cannot be a 'starter area' like you suggest. You say that a starter area is somewhere someone stays for a couple days before moving on. I agree, this is how things usually work. But people dont leave hi-sec after a few days. Some people dont leave hi-sec after months. Some people never do.

You also imply that people move in a logical progression down to nullsec over the course of their playing. Now this is just impractical in EvE. There is often no reason to go into low sec so quickly unless you really want some pvp. Nullsec is just highsec but everything is a little "harder" so to speak. Regardless, because this is a sandbox, why SHOULD hi-sec be safe?

EvE has never sugar coated anything. They encouraged Burn Jita, you know why? Because EvE is practically an experiment, it is a place where they set up some mechanics and let a bunch of people run wild. Find me one case where a dev has specified hi-sec as a safe zone. Tip: youre not going to be able to.
Josef Djugashvilis
#49 - 2012-06-06 06:16:42 UTC
Perhaps the pvp folk should stop complaining about whinging miners until they (the pvpers) stop whinging about covert ships in their pve 'mining with guns' systems.

This is not a signature.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-06-06 07:57:13 UTC
Saved draft - Do you want to replace your current text with the draft?close.
Covert Kitty wrote:
It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?

So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?

Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)

So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is.


If you have to ask this question you'll probably never be able understand it. It's not about competition as much is it's about camaraderie and kindship with folk who do get hurt even when you haven't been. It's about offense at a minority of the player base pretending they are more righteous than the other 80% because they pvp differently - and in their arrogance try to force others to play the game the way they want them to ...or else.

You need a reality check if you think pvpers are free of whiney rants. We see pvpers constantly making stuff up about miners or just calling them names... accusing non-botting miners of botting, whining about the value of the material high seccers collect, whining about high sec income in general, whining about the value of ships high seccer can fly - I actually read some sec bigot go on the other day about how a noob in high sec could make 6 million an hour in a dead space plex as if it were an outrageous fortuneRoll.... Well, in my opinion null sec is too safe and too lucerative. In fact, it must be so safe as to be pretty boring right now.

As far as gankers helping me compete, I can compete just fine against other miners without ganker help - on level ground I'm competitive.. It's the demonization, ridicule, the egotistical comments, violent campaigns, and plain old rude statements against a whole profession that do nothing but strengthen the bond miners feel. There will be some who do not feel this of course (mostly noob or very occasional miners).. but the majority are offended for other miners they know who do lose ships and pods to suicide ganking "pvpers". You can't change that by killing more miners or by starting a rant threat in the forums.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-06-06 08:02:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:
Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.

Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.

So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free.


Hi sec is not a starting area.

Hi sec does not consist of just 1.0 and .9 systems, it's all systems .6 up. (is .5 considered low or hi I can't rememer)

Null > 0.0 > low sec > high sec > starting system

The only starting areas, or systems, in the game are the ones that you start in as a new player. The moment you undock and leave that system, you've left the starting area.

In otherwords your wrote a bunch of words that amount to ****, you're wrong.


.5 is high sec.. it's the bottom end. Congrats on making up new space zones..... (sic)

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#52 - 2012-06-06 08:03:46 UTC
the miners who actually play the game, as in are awake and at thier machine such as myself stand to make alot of isk if the minerbash continues. Though i really wish the hulkageddoners would ramp up thier attacks on the bots.

The bots hurt me a ton more then the human miner who take 10-15 minutes to full thier hulks hold
pussnheels
Viziam
#53 - 2012-06-06 08:11:28 UTC
Covert Kitty wrote:
It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?

So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?

Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)

So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is.

that is a rethorical question isn't ,
would you like it when your 250 mil isk and 2 month long investment gets blown up just because you can not fight back by some whitetrash teenager who is scared to death losing his ship to a real person in actual pvp but doesn't mind losing his ship to a game mechanic

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-06-06 08:13:41 UTC
Aramatheia wrote:
the miners who actually play the game, as in are awake and at thier machine such as myself stand to make alot of isk if the minerbash continues. Though i really wish the hulkageddoners would ramp up thier attacks on the bots.

The bots hurt me a ton more then the human miner who take 10-15 minutes to full thier hulks hold



Don't fall for the propaganda. There are fewer bots out there than you think. Sure there are some.. but CCP has run very convincing campaigns to ban the bots significantly reducing their numbers.. so now with fewer bots to point to, non-miners are demonizing non-botters as botters so they can maintain their "righteous fury".....

You shouldn't have to depend on an artificial event run by people without your best interest in mind to make money mining .

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-06-06 08:16:38 UTC
Aramatheia wrote:
Though i really wish the hulkageddoners would ramp up thier attacks on the bots.

The bots hurt me a ton more then the human miner who take 10-15 minutes to full thier hulks hold


I could be mistaken, but that was the intent when Hulkaggedon first started. To strike the bots. Now, they don't care who you are, if you are at the keyboard or not. You have a ship that costs 215m that can be blown up by a ship(s) that cost in total maybe 4m and are defenseless.

Oh and you are playing in the sandbox the wrong way.
Xuse Senna
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#56 - 2012-06-06 08:46:38 UTC
Covert Kitty wrote:
It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?

So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?

Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)

So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is.



o.O what are you doing in the Eve Forums :P

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7501/mindgamesceptionfinaldr.jpg
MakronKane
Titanium Duck Industries
#57 - 2012-06-06 08:54:14 UTC
Just my 2p (Hi all btw)

Although I totally agree that as soon as you undock, you are a possible target, I have had thoughts that the current trend could impact the game as a whole. Largely down to new players, with their 21 day trials weighing up pros and cons of the game before committing to a monthly subscription. Only to be bombbarded by suicide gankers.

On one hand, I love EVE and on the other can see how hard this game must be if your new, throw on top the ganking, well two perfectly good reasons why they shouldnt subscribe.

This can also be said for some of the older players who possibly got fed up and simply quit.

Maybe they do need to up tank the Hulk or maybe they need to make "safe" start zones, where locking only works on roids and npc's. Something to address the balance, if anything, to create a more postive thought for your would be subscriber.

As, at the end of the day, no income, no game, easy as that really.
Mr Sato
Bubbles Bubbles Bubbles
#58 - 2012-06-06 08:56:57 UTC
I guess some miners don't want pvp in high sec at all, but no one listens to those. From what I gather, the biggest (real) concern is how cheap a ship you really need to get some results as a ganker. Some would even go so far as call it effort-less as long as standing is not an issue, and I tend to agree.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#59 - 2012-06-06 09:50:17 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:
Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.

Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.

So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free.


Great idea, but you're wrong. You might want to brush up on EVE History.

"Hisec" was never meant to be safe at all. It's just "safer", in order to allow you to pull yourself back up in the event that you lose everything. The "starter area" amounts to 12 systems across the four regions, there are an additional 12 "career agent" (i.e. tutorial agent) systemsas well. All 24 of these systems are protected from some of "typical" traps (can baiting, etc), and IIRC they are also 1.0 (though some might be 0.8/0.9, and I honestly don't care enough to check dotlan Blink)

The only reason that hisec now includes such "features" as guaranteed death from CONCORD is because of certain groups in the past (m0o, zombies, et al.) who figured out how to tank CONCORD (more recently, boomerang tactics, etc have also been "fixed" with CONCORD insta-points). They were good enough at this stuff to force an ad-hoc dev event to break the blockade of the game's trading hub at the time (IIRC, Yulai).

Now, I missed those times (only started in '07) ... but after ~5 years of flying across k-space (generally as a carebear, or fail wannabe PvPer), I'm starting to believe that a lot of the troubles in hisec are caused by these simple facts:

1. hisec is too safe, and new people are coming with the wrong expectations.
2. lowsec is viewed to be crap.
3. nullsec has been too stagnant for too long.
4. bots
5. it's too easy to get stuff from the markets

I'm not gonna pretend to know enough about the mechanics to say what CCP needs to fix, or that the newest things WILL fix the troubles ... but we'll see.

1. Seems the new 'dec/crimewatch/etc mechanics will help here. It'll take getting used to, but I'm at least hopeful that they won't be any worse than now (and if they are ... might be time to explore w-space or something)
2. Not so sure on this one. Sure hisec is safer and nullsec has better materials ... but it seems that lowsec could be a pretty decent place once you get to know people (via diplomacy, or antimatter).
3. ban goos, rabble rabble. Honestly have been out of Null for far too long to really know what's going on here.
4. CCP Sreegs and team seem to be doing well in this regard (yay!)
5. Mineral prices keep going up, and we might see the resurgence of well-rounded corps, as "griefers" need to get their ships somehow.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-06-06 10:09:58 UTC
It's simple: there's no profit to be made. Only ones profiting from this event are gankers.