EVE General Discussion

But u pvp players do it also when sitting at gate camps and sov sieges.

Good point, we do from time to time, and quite often pay for it. I'm pretty sure I've been killed a couple times because I went to make some tea at the wrong time XD

Of course the response to that, every time, is "you should have safed/logged/docked" first. I got my tea, but lost my ship. That's how it works in Eve, it's just fine if it works like that in mining as well.

Indeed and probably why i havent lost a hulk yet.

Lets face it, most "pvpers" only engage when they know that they can, without a doubt, win. That or they will only engage if they have a 50/50 chance, but a 100% chance of escaping...yeah you gate humpers, I'm talking about you. Then there are those that live for baiting people into a titan bridged fleet.

The problem with the OP's lack of information, which she declared outright, is that it can take so little to destroy barges. Of course you won't see many t2 combat ships being raped by a few t1 ships that cost as much as a single module on the t2 ship. It completely ignores the intended goal of the player, the 'career' in game, and ship selection. It also ignores the choice of theater of operations. IF you go to 0.0, then yes you are technically clicking the "yes" box to be open to pvp regardless of what you intend on doing. You are assuming the risk that people are going to outright murder you if you make a mistake, but you do so because of the fat profits you can make mining out there.

People like to confuse the idea of high security systems to 0.0 systems. Somehow they moronically get it into their heads that all areas of the game need to be the same security rating. They think that because someone has access to veldspar that it is on par with 0.0 ores, therefore they should assume the same level of risk. That is absolutely stupid.

IF CCP is going to allow the continued harassment of hisec miners, they need to start seeding better ores then what can be found in 0.0. Now I know some limited people here are going to not realize why I would suggest such, so I shall break it down.


0.0 mining has advantages over hisec mining right now. The first is that in 0.0, if its not blue, its not friendly. If it is not friendly, dock up. In hisec if its not blue, its normal. If seeing non-blue pilots by the dozen flying about how does one know when it is safe to undock and mine? Answer? They cannot, therefore they can either stay docked up or assume greater risks then their 0.0 counter parts.

Null has better minerals then any hisec system. Null miners can make far more per hour regardless of what people want to exagerate about the increased prices of minerals such as veldspar. They can mine such ores without the undefined risk associated with the masses of pilots flying around hisec, their risk vs reward ratio is through the roof. The hisec miner is stuck mining trash ores that will never net him a fortune regardless of how much he mines and since anyone in a barge is a target and no one is doing afk checks of any sort before attacking, the risk vs reward ratio is far more risk then reward.

The reason that a hisec miner will never become rich just because the prices of trit and other low ends may go up, and their so called "competition" gets blown up, is that no one is adjusting for the inflation. IF you had an hour of work and earned $10 USD, and something happens where there are fewer workers available and companies start paying more for a worker from $10 USD per work hour to $20 USD an hour, you are not making more money in the end. The reason is that everyone is seeing increases across the board, so getting that $20 USD per work hour is going to leave you in the same damn position as you were in when you were only getting $10 an hour but there were far more workers available. Why? Because the costs of everything else is going to increase to the point of negating your gains per hour.

10mil for a ship that used to cost 7mil before the spike in low end mineral costs? Sure, if all you do is mine you will not see the increase, but whenever you decide to get around to spending your isk you are going to get a lot less then you would have months ago. The only difference is that the numbers that are being exchanged are higher, but you gained zero additional buying power. Therefore those that suggest that miners that are always ready to warp off at a split second's notice are going to make more money are either absolute idiots that have no idea how things work, or they are intentionally lying to you in hopes that you simply roll over and take it.


The idea that "smart" miners are going to easily survive is absolutely false. Of course they like to say "smart miners" as an attempt to drive a wedge between those that have been popped and those that have yet to be popped. Look up "poisoning the well" and you will understand what I mean. They want you to think the other guy was an idiot and they want to puff up your ego so that you two will never realize both of you are at risk at all times and for no reason other then Goon's greed and the greed of lemmings. Divide and conquer. These people looking to kill barges are not going to stop and see if you are afk or at the keyboard, they are just going to attack you regardless because blasting your ship puts money in their wallets.

Barges make easy targets in hisec because there are to many people to track. Its not 0.0 where you know neutrals are to be assumed hostile. You don't know if a neutral is cloaked near your barge and his friends are warping to him right now to kill you before you have a chance to warp off even if aligned. If I was taking part of this crap there would be no escape for your barge and you would be a fool to believe you ever did.

some miners are happy, some aren't. Not very hard to figure out why for each one.

Yes, I know I am correct. Unfortunately for you, your miserable excuse for logic is completely wrong, making you the 'absolutely stupid" one around here. "of like 5-10 mil" again showing your lack of of knowledge about mining, especially when coupled with the fact that a hulk will pull in far more ore then a covetor within a single month. This makes it far more logical for a hisec minor to invest in a hulk if they are going to be there for some time as they will more then make their investment back.

Please, try to come up with something at least half baked next time.

In a lot of cases, miners mine because they want to mind and not to fight and be left alone.
(Corporate miners, mining alts, etc excluded, I mean carebear miners.)
When they have to fight, or are attacked, a foreign world they have little knowledge of and wished to dissociated from is pushing itself on them. They, suffice to say, do not enjoy this. They may play the game for an entirely different set of reasons than the pirates do.

Now, this is kind of a weird approach, as they're an integral part of the economy whether they like it or realize it or not.
They play the game for different reasons, but they still play it. And they're still very much a part of it.
Thinking they can separate themselves from combat is naive - there is no conscientious objecting in the world of Eve.

It is still understandable, though, how they may become upset when the evil pirates swoop out of nowhere and keep killing their lovely hulks. It's a world they have willfully excluded themselves from that's coming a-knocking at the door.
But on the other hand, it's also understandable that pirates could see the miners as being a whole host of negative things, mainly whiny or silly for doing the things they do. This is also valid. But we kind of have a clash of worldviews going on (in the cases of simple carebear high-sec miner versus pirate or bounty hunter), and that means nobody ends up happy. Things the miners might see as rude or mean are just the way of life outside of the loving arms of CONCORD. And things the pirates might see as obvious or simple might be entirely foreign concepts to the miners who have spent their lives thus far nestled in the bosom of high-sec.

I imagine there was a lot that CCP didn't imagine as Eve has progressed. Like, I don't think CCP thought low and null sec would become a boring wasteland.

My whole point being the idea that Hi-sec was possibly meant to be a starting area for people to branch out into lowsec and 0.0 space, but what the "players" or large alliances have made out of lowsec and 0.0 has turned hi-sec into something that is no longer what it may have been intended to be.

This post clarify a lot of stuff but unfortunately only sane people can understand witch is sad when you've read IG local chat and heard on vocal people being called/named the worst things a normally respectable human being would pick a gun and kill the guy on his feet.
Unfortunately this is Eve and in eve this behaviour not only is encouraged but leads to no actions, however if someone report you for trolling you can be sure a simple phrase will lead you to some forum ban, witch is not really a loss with such pathetic content and happy some times trolls entertain a little bit this mess.

Wanted to confirm this second point, of all null sec alliances I know (a lot) use this specific program, the way reimbursements are done or if it's just ships you're given in advance and replaced once lost etc yadyada doesn't matter.

What it matters is that if big hat tells you "go there kill *this"" no matter how much is the loss vs the kill or how many, you WILL get TOTAL reimbursement.
So yes, another null sec no brainers fake argument about risk witch is something they don't really know. But they're not all alike of course.