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Blaster/Rail Tengu
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Denuo Secus
#1 - 2012-06-03 18:51:42 UTC
Just curious...after the hybrid buff, is there any solid reason to fit a Tengu with blasters or rails?

I could imagine a rail-fit could be interesting when instant damage at range + very small sig is important. A blaster Tengu could work because as a shield tank it can be fit with full gank&tank. Also the new fueled shield booster is interesting here. If I want a non glass cannon, tanked Proteus I need to make compromises in terms of tank or gank. On the other hand, a Proteus has much better hybid subsystems....not sure if additional MFSs and/or TEs on a Tengu can compensate this.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#2 - 2012-06-03 19:01:40 UTC
No. That's the simple and short answer, sadly. A blaster tengu has to get into scram/web/neut range, lacks dps and range. In many ways it's worse than a blaster proteus, for various reasons.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#3 - 2012-06-03 20:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Merin Ryskin
Vilnius Zar wrote:
No. That's the simple and short answer, sadly. A blaster tengu has to get into scram/web/neut range, lacks dps and range. In many ways it's worse than a blaster proteus, for various reasons.


I wasn't aware that guns with 18km optimal (+9km falloff) were considered "within web/scram/neut range". Has EVE been rebalanced to make super-tanked Arazus and Rapiers the most common ships?


As for the original question, the blaster Tengu is a good HAC, but a poor T3. If the price was more like the Eagle it would be an awesome ship, but if you're paying full T3 prices the missile setups are just too good to ignore.
Noisrevbus
#4 - 2012-06-03 20:14:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Noisrevbus
Back in early 2010 we experimented with Rail Tengus (along with LR on all the other Tech III), pretty much on the same principle that some groups experimented with other Tech III ships (having them supplement and surpass HAC in then popular trends).

The rail over HML option then as with all other ships was the application of uniform damage, while the Tengus could stay with the gang while on the move, unlike Eagles. At the end of the day, all you needed was a couple since what you traded your 400m for was the possibility to field a Link and superior tracking.

Today of course, it's pointless fielding any undertanked expensive cruiser right in LRBS and tier 3 BC optimal.

I guess you could still fit it up with blasters to entertain yourself solo, as with a Blaster ferox; though the pricetag tend to make most people shy away from that casual fun.


ed. To answer Merin's question: yeah, pretty much. I think it's good manner to assume some specialist tackle with Logi support around every corner these days. Wether or not you were being ironic, i actually am not. I don't really see a problem with it either, but it's well worth keeping in mind, trend has really changed that much in my oppinion.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#5 - 2012-06-03 20:58:25 UTC
Denuo Secus wrote:
Just curious...after the hybrid buff, is there any solid reason to fit a Tengu with blasters or rails?


No.

Main reason being the turret subsystem being such a lame joke. If it was somewhat more simiar to the Proteus' DPS subsystem ...
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#6 - 2012-06-03 21:14:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
No. That's the simple and short answer, sadly. A blaster tengu has to get into scram/web/neut range, lacks dps and range. In many ways it's worse than a blaster proteus, for various reasons.


I wasn't aware that guns with 18km optimal (+9km falloff) were considered "within web/scram/neut range". Has EVE been rebalanced to make super-tanked Arazus and Rapiers the most common ships?


As for the original question, the blaster Tengu is a good HAC, but a poor T3. If the price was more like the Eagle it would be an awesome ship, but if you're paying full T3 prices the missile setups are just too good to ignore.


Show me a viable Tengu fit that gets 18km optimal from its blasters (I'll forgive you the weird 9km falloff number).

Then tell us how that is to work outside scram range, you're going to orbit at 20? It can't use the 100mn AB too well because of short dps range so it'll have to use MWD and that makes it just a slow, sluggish 550 dps short range cruiser, albeit with 100k EHP. Not realistic in any sort of way.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-06-03 22:00:29 UTC
Blaster tengu is actually quite good.
gets good tank, good dps and can comfortably fit full tackle.
it also have the massive advantage of not using sissy missiles.
only real down side is cap since a tengu has none.

rails are bad mmk.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#8 - 2012-06-04 02:10:50 UTC
Noisrevbus wrote:
ed. To answer Merin's question: yeah, pretty much. I think it's good manner to assume some specialist tackle with Logi support around every corner these days. Wether or not you were being ironic, i actually am not. I don't really see a problem with it either, but it's well worth keeping in mind, trend has really changed that much in my oppinion.
[/quote]

Yes, that was sarcasm. The point is that pretty much everything is "within web/scram range" if you assume that every fleet has multiple Arazus and Rapiers, so saying "blaster Tengu has less than 50km range" doesn't really mean much.

Also, not every PvP fight is a fleet fight.

Vilnius Zar wrote:
Show me a viable Tengu fit that gets 18km optimal from its blasters (I'll forgive you the weird 9km falloff number).


Without even trying too hard:

[Tengu, blaster]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M

Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I

Tengu Offensive - Magnetic Infusion Basin
Tengu Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer


Quote:
Then tell us how that is to work outside scram range, you're going to orbit at 20? It can't use the 100mn AB too well because of short dps range so it'll have to use MWD and that makes it just a slow, sluggish 550 dps short range cruiser, albeit with 100k EHP. Not realistic in any sort of way.


That's why I said it was a bad T3 cruiser. Those numbers would be nice if it was HAC price, but at T3 prices the missile Tengu options just completely outclass it.

My point about the range is just that it's stupid to say that a blaster Tengu has short range. The ship has its flaws, but "have to get within scram range" isn't one of them.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-06-04 02:16:20 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
No.


quoting the important part.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#10 - 2012-06-04 07:09:04 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I

My point about the range is just that it's stupid to say that a blaster Tengu has short range. The ship has its flaws, but "have to get within scram range" isn't one of them.



Oh come on. You can't seriously suggest that to be a viable, logical set of rigs. It's just not good at the blaster role other than being gang linked to hell and killing idiots, "it works sometimes" is hardly a compelling argument.
Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#11 - 2012-06-04 08:53:17 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I

My point about the range is just that it's stupid to say that a blaster Tengu has short range. The ship has its flaws, but "have to get within scram range" isn't one of them.



Oh come on. You can't seriously suggest that to be a viable, logical set of rigs. It's just not good at the blaster role other than being gang linked to hell and killing idiots, "it works sometimes" is hardly a compelling argument.

That fit might work if one MFS and a DCU were dropped for dual TE's, then rigs could be changed for tanky ones

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-06-04 10:54:27 UTC
I'm sad to say that there's a reason everyone and their mother uses missiles on it - a blaster Tengu will simply not be as good as Proteus and nowhere near as good as a missile Tengu.

Truth be told, I don't really mind, I see Tengu as something of a Drake mk.II - I find it a much bigger issue that hybrids in general are neglected for various reasons when it comes to Caldari. Lack of navy or T2 hybrid hull doesn't help either, I have no doubt that a navy Rokh would be at least as popular as SNI.
WolfeReign
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-06-04 13:38:59 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
I'm sad to say that there's a reason everyone and their mother uses missiles on it - a blaster Tengu will simply not be as good as Proteus and nowhere near as good as a missile Tengu.

Truth be told, I don't really mind, I see Tengu as something of a Drake mk.II - I find it a much bigger issue that hybrids in general are neglected for various reasons when it comes to Caldari. Lack of navy or T2 hybrid hull doesn't help either, I have no doubt that a navy Rokh would be at least as popular as SNI.


There is T2 hulls and their called Harpy, Eagle, Vulture. of the 3 the harpy has easily the best performance but that's because medium rails suck imho. I do agree that some navy hulls for caldari should be hybrid but that's because I want one for fw medium plexes to compete with those nasty cynabals.
Velarra
#14 - 2012-06-05 00:54:30 UTC
A Hybrid Navy Rokh would be lovely.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#15 - 2012-06-05 04:35:11 UTC
That blaster Tengu looks OK...745 DPS with Void, 500 with Null. I would pimp for two T2 locus rigs and a T2 EM rig, though, and you get 83K EHP when you overheat the invuls.

However, you are paying 600M ISK to replicate to within 10K EHP and 20DPS the following Ferox (plus/minus a few km optimal).

[Ferox, Blastox]

Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
[Empty High slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Warrior II x5

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-06-05 09:34:26 UTC
Velarra wrote:
A Hybrid Navy Rokh would be lovely.

so much this. wtb hybrid CNR.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-06-05 16:24:46 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
That blaster Tengu looks OK...745 DPS with Void, 500 with Null. I would pimp for two T2 locus rigs and a T2 EM rig, though, and you get 83K EHP when you overheat the invuls.

However, you are paying 600M ISK to replicate to within 10K EHP and 20DPS the following Ferox (plus/minus a few km optimal).

[Ferox, Blastox]

Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
[Empty High slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Warrior II x5



This would be awesome if blaster Tengu wouldn't be shaking his knees because neuts are badass then your tanks goes like pouff.

brb
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-06-05 16:27:14 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Velarra wrote:
A Hybrid Navy Rokh would be lovely.

so much this. wtb hybrid CNR.



Me too wants Federation Navy Hyperion, would also like Federation Navy Brutix and Thorax.

Then Federation Navy Moros and Thanatos.

That would make my fun for a long while.

brb
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#19 - 2012-06-05 17:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Short answer no...

http://aten-hosted.com/images/blaster.jpg (kinda assuming you'd use it in a fleet with support webs).

...long answer no (you'd probably be better off with a regular T2 HAMGU)
Eveess
ChemiKals
Xenta.
#20 - 2012-06-05 20:20:24 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Short answer no...

http://aten-hosted.com/images/blaster.jpg (kinda assuming you'd use it in a fleet with support webs).

...long answer no (you'd probably be better off with a regular T2 HAMGU)



omg no