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Incoming Tech Nerf is...
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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#21 - 2012-06-04 20:42:17 UTC
At fanfest ring mining was mentioned. What was to be mined was not defined, except for them to say moon materials was a strong contender. The idea is alliance income would come form fleets of miners, not a mostly unattended POS. What was not said was what would moon mining actually mine if ring mining became the current moon materials.

Would moon mining still be moon materials as well? Something new? Or gone completely?

Then there is the question of distribution. Some raw materials in eve are obtainable anywhere, just are in larger volumes as one moves from 1.0 space to -1.0 space. Examples are low end ores, salvage and PI materials. Others are non-existent in high sec and only exist in lower sec space. Examples are moon materials and high end ores.

Which way will ring mining be? Will we be able to mine Technetium in high sec, just in tiny amounts compared to null? Or will it be low and null only?

I personally like the PI model: Make it all available everywhere, just make it much better to go to low or null.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
stoicfaux
#22 - 2012-06-04 21:09:35 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
The irony, of course, is if you need miners (aka players) to actually dredge up the moon goo. Hulkageddon would probably morph into an advertising campaign to attract high-sec carebear miners into null corps to do the dreary, monotonous task of goo mining. Which, given who has sponsored Hulkageddon and ice interdictions, could make for an amusing situation.


edit: On the plus side, if you figure in CCP's tendency to add in a requisite unannounced major changes to expansions, such as hypothetically removing local from null in this case, requiring players to actually mine moon goo (or its equivalent ) could make "commerce" style raiding practical.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Mersault
Blue Nine Industries
#23 - 2012-06-04 21:14:56 UTC
Grandpa Bill wrote:
Im not really sure what a nerfd is but back in my day we never mined on the moon. .


What he said.
lanyaie
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#24 - 2012-06-04 21:29:20 UTC
And when are we going to buff incursions again? And buff the minmatar supers while you're at it.

Spaceprincess

People who put passwords on char bazaar Eveboards are the worst.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#25 - 2012-06-04 21:45:53 UTC
lanyaie wrote:
And when are we going to buff incursions again? And buff the minmatar supers while you're at it.

Our SuperRifters :)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Max Swagger
New Eden Browncoats
#26 - 2012-06-04 22:14:28 UTC
CCP is basically trying to shift people to null sec. Since we know null sec absolutely hates industrialists and only see them useful as target practice, CCP is sort of caught. So, they have to make it so the null sec alliances will beg said industrial types to come to their region.

Imagine that, null sec alliances trying to recruit mining types. Now these alliances who caused these industrialists and miners the most grief, may see interesting times ahead.

Don't worry I'm sure CCP won't rock the boat too much, but it is fun to imagine certain possible futures :)
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#27 - 2012-06-04 22:28:41 UTC
Max Swagger wrote:
CCP is basically trying to shift people to null sec. Since we know null sec absolutely hates industrialists and only see them useful as target practice, CCP is sort of caught. So, they have to make it so the null sec alliances will beg said industrial types to come to their region.

Imagine that, null sec alliances trying to recruit mining types. Now these alliances who caused these industrialists and miners the most grief, may see interesting times ahead.

Don't worry I'm sure CCP won't rock the boat too much, but it is fun to imagine certain possible futures :)

That's the way it is supposed to work.

Moon goo made enough money that miners were not required in null. Teleportation/Jump Freighters made it so industrialists are not needed. Hopefully both problems are addressed.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2012-06-04 22:35:52 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Moon goo made enough money that miners were not required in null. Teleportation/Jump Freighters made it so industrialists are not needed. Hopefully both problems are addressed.

yes those industrialists will sprout like weeds once jump freighters are removed and they have no way of getting materials from empire necessary for industry

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#29 - 2012-06-04 22:42:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Weaselior wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Moon goo made enough money that miners were not required in null. Teleportation/Jump Freighters made it so industrialists are not needed. Hopefully both problems are addressed.

yes those industrialists will sprout like weeds once jump freighters are removed and they have no way of getting materials from empire necessary for industry

There was an EvE before jump freighters, you know. Google harder. Look up terms like "scouting" and "escorts". The more you know...

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Lili Lu
#30 - 2012-06-04 22:47:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Akita T wrote:
Zelda Wei wrote:
Incoming Tech Nerf is rumoured to be a "complete refactoring of moon mining". Anybody else got any more details ?

No matter what it is, it's the very least 2 years late, probably over 3 though.

This.

And with the pace of ship "rebalancing" as an indicator of CCP alacrity with necessary game changes, I would not hold my breath. Paging Tech nerf in two or three more years.Roll The only thing that moves quickly are such really really important things like the incredibly wonderful new inventory system.

And lastly, however and whenever the nerf is to be accomplished you can be sure it will be put on the test server with a token call to the player base for comment and critique. It will then be ceremoniously dumped onto tranquility, unaltered in response to any well reasoned or factually supported warning calls. Sorta like the wonderful new inventory system was, and wait for it,

. . . like the original moon goo/ tech II production fix which created the tech mess to begin with.Lol
Spy 21
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-06-04 22:49:34 UTC
Grandpa Bill wrote:
Im not really sure what a nerfd is but back in my day we never mined on the moon. Matter of fact my grandson Ted told me that the whole moon landing was fake. I told him that there were people in my day that said the same thing but I stand by what I seen personally on the tube and say that it was as real as rain. Boy speaking of rain, we had quite the storm come in and I was trying to figure out a game that I want to play with my grandson Gabe and the power went off. Well thats what wrong with this new world of technology. The boy cried about not being able to do anything and was so sad. Well I dusted off a board game, you know the ones where it asks you questions and you got to guess the answer. I really liked to play board games when I was a kid. We used to make up our own games, I had one called whurlly bird, it had the same kind of rules as hide and go seek except it was... well now that I think of it we just called it hide and go seek, cause that what we were doin. Back in those days, you could go to the store and get a jar of pickles for a quarter. All of my friends and I would eat them until we would get sick. But pickles are good for you in moderation, keeps your joints lubricated.


Good God that's the best post I have EVER seen in these forums...

Keep it up Grandpa Bill!!!

I plus 1'd this

S

Obfuscation for the WIN on page 3...
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-06-04 22:54:21 UTC
All nullsec indy needs is more slots and sov bonuses. Getting rid of JFs is the worst idea for null industry.
Spurty
#33 - 2012-06-04 23:08:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Spurty
With very few exceptions (Jita is most noticeable) all systems have asteroid belts.

They also have planets and moons.

Seeing a pos up at a moon is not an uncommon site. So uncommon that many of these things are off line and just sitting there waiting for a reason to be destroyed (hasn't been a reason to destroy these for years so that won't happen).

Now, seeing a mining barge in a belt however is like finding rocking horse poo.

Just move the expensive stuff into a few belts (much like ice belts) and get people undocking and being active.

Not saying that bots won't be the main chunk of people mining, but now at least something is happening with a modicum of risk for the income.

Welcome this if nothing else.

I speak of 0.0

God only knows what goes on in empire and low sec

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-06-04 23:21:31 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Moon goo made enough money that miners were not required in null. Teleportation/Jump Freighters made it so industrialists are not needed. Hopefully both problems are addressed.

yes those industrialists will sprout like weeds once jump freighters are removed and they have no way of getting materials from empire necessary for industry

OH SNAP! Serious bzns time: Null has not the slot capacity for large scale industrialisation. Adding to that fact is that null also is lacking a significant amount of trit heavy ores. These two things combined will make any serious effort to industrialise null space, at a minimum dificult.

I've looked at the numbers, and a single null region has about the same number manufacturing slots as a single empire constelation. The amount of trit in the large grav site (the one the Bloodtear report says is the most efficient to mine.) will barely produce enough trit to make a battlecrusier. The small has enough to make about 4, I haven't run the numbers for the moderate but I would asume that if you mined out those three sites daiy, you could produce 7 battlecrusiers per industry level 3 system. Oh wait, you need a refining outpost that doesn't have any significant production slots to melt the ore down to minerals, and haul the minerals to a factory outpost that has just 20 production slots. Once you concider that You begin to realise that it would be less hastle to just fill up a jumpfreighter full of stuff in empire and jump it out to null.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2012-06-05 01:42:47 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Moon goo made enough money that miners were not required in null. Teleportation/Jump Freighters made it so industrialists are not needed. Hopefully both problems are addressed.

yes those industrialists will sprout like weeds once jump freighters are removed and they have no way of getting materials from empire necessary for industry

There was an EvE before jump freighters, you know. Google harder. Look up terms like "scouting" and "escorts". The more you know...

yes

they used carriers as haulers instead

good to know you actually know your eve history buddy

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2012-06-05 01:43:23 UTC
also you could compress much better then with passive targeters and tractor beams

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2012-06-05 01:46:22 UTC
basically don't ever try to bullshit about eve industry around me or you will get slapped down harder than you can imagine

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Ghazu
#38 - 2012-06-05 01:50:59 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
I am shocked and appalled at the suggestion that t2 raw materials will still go into the pockets of those groups that can project power in the areas where it resides.

SHOCKED AND APPALLED

On a more serious note, the main idea behind ring-mining is that the income then comes through the bottom of the alliance and has to filter up, instead of coming in at the top and filtering down.


ah christ screw that, i am just a grunt, i don't even log in unless something worth 20 jumps is tackled or we got a fight coming, or if dbrb is fc-ing
i just like to fight get killed and post reimbursement, now i might have to mine?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
#39 - 2012-06-05 02:03:48 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Pinstar Colton wrote:
Any word on ring mining in relations to planets? IE, are planets with rings going to suddenly become more valued? Or is it an entirely different mechanic?

nobody knows



Errr...I believe your leader is working with certain ex-goon (or not ex-goon???) developer to design it?

What it will NOT be:

1. Something that cuts into the null sec alliance's income flow.
2. Something that will require much effort for null sec alliances to locate.
2. Something that will be real-time-consuming for null sec miners to extract.
3. Something that will require too much risk of high priced ships in deep 0.0, away from stations.
4. Something that is not easily controllable by the same alliances that control moon-goo now.

What it will be:

1. Tied to sov.
2. Tied to a new class of mining ship.

Bottom line, it will maintain the status quo.

Yet another paranoid conspiracy theory from a victimised resident of hisec who thinks that his 7 man hisec dwelling corp should be able to compete with 8000 man alliances that hold sov. Or do you have solid proof that everything you wrote is true?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-06-05 02:05:59 UTC
Zelda Wei wrote:

... rumoured to be a "complete refactoring of moon mining".

Anybody else got any more details ?


I'm betting something really hamfisted, and that IRC will be squatting on the best space in the game, when the only thing that really saved them previously is they were squatting on the WORST space in the game. Oh wait. And providence.
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