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Intergalactic Summit

 
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The Virgins of St. Junip

Author
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#121 - 2011-10-05 09:25:49 UTC
Merdaneth wrote:
Don't see what you want to see. See what is.
To paraphrase a smart person in this thread: "It astonishes me how you're able to state this and with the same breath do the very same thing yourself."
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2011-10-05 13:18:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kithrus
((please remove))

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2011-10-05 13:20:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kithrus
Andreus Ixiris wrote:


As previously demonstrated - and as flagrantly and desperately ignored by you - what we see are not rogue naval units, but fully-sanctioned taskforces.



Fully-sanctioned taskforces? You have their orders in your hands or are you again projecting something?

The Amarr Navy is the largest in the cluster I can understand how 5% of it moving anywhere can appear like an invasion force.

Also I've 'harvested' my share of dog tags too you know. Both Amarrian from these raids and Gallentean for encroaching on our sovereign space.

Most of the time while mopping up said forces it was because you were assaulting out science stations. What? I thought you did in a few centuries what we did in thousands.... Why do you need our tech Sir?

All things aside back on topic if I can be so bold as to present that motion, I think the childish nature of the lesser races tenancy to froth and jump all over slavery issues without fixing their own nations issues first is cute.

Amarrs Economy is flawless, we have no poor or needy, everyone has a duty and a place in the world. Till you can challenge this with a better system (which you currently can't) all your arguments ring hallow.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#124 - 2011-10-05 14:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Jaiga
Kithrus wrote:


All things aside back on topic if I can be so bold as to present that motion, I think the childish nature of the lesser races tenancy to froth and jump all over slavery issues without fixing their own nations issues first is cute.



"We screwed your people over, and since you're left with a comparitively tiny section of space we'll continue to laugh at you and screw you over until you somehow magically fix things for yourselves (in spite of our continuing to screw you over). While we're at it, we'll also claim to be superior in every way just to rub salt in the wound; have fun."

Kithrus wrote:

Amarrs Economy is flawless, we have no poor or needy, everyone has a duty and a place in the world. Till you can challenge this with a better system (which you currently can't) all your arguments ring hallow.


"We're the best at stealing everyone else's stuff [notably, labor force], thus we have it all. Until you too have it all, although our stealing your stuff may hinder that, I will ignore your arguments no matter how valid they may be".


Did I do it right?
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#125 - 2011-10-05 14:31:56 UTC
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Kithrus wrote:


All things aside back on topic if I can be so bold as to present that motion, I think the childish nature of the lesser races tenancy to froth and jump all over slavery issues without fixing their own nations issues first is cute.



"We screwed your people over, and since you're left with a comparitively tiny section of space we'll continue to laugh at you and screw you over until you somehow magically fix things for yourselves (in spite of our continuing to screw you over). While we're at it, we'll also claim to be superior in every way just to rub salt in the wound; have fun."

Kithrus wrote:

Amarrs Economy is flawless, we have no poor or needy, everyone has a duty and a place in the world. Till you can challenge this with a better system (which you currently can't) all your arguments ring hallow.


"We're the best at stealing everyone else's stuff [notably, labor force], thus we have it all. Until you too have it all, although our stealing your stuff may hinder that, I will ignore your arguments no matter how valid they may be".


Did I do it right?


No. You of all people should know I have no issue with making reparations as long as they are used for what they are meant.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#126 - 2011-10-05 14:57:26 UTC
Kithrus wrote:
No. You of all people should know I have no issue with making reparations as long as they are used for what they are meant.


I think that's what everyone's been wanting to hear out of you. So essentially you're fine with the Empire giving capital to the Republic, so long as it's not used to build warships?
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2011-10-05 15:06:43 UTC
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Kithrus wrote:
No. You of all people should know I have no issue with making reparations as long as they are used for what they are meant.


I think that's what everyone's been wanting to hear out of you. So essentially you're fine with the Empire giving capital to the Republic, so long as it's not used to build warships?


Yes, simply yes.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#128 - 2011-10-05 15:18:13 UTC
Kithrus wrote:
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Kithrus wrote:
No. You of all people should know I have no issue with making reparations as long as they are used for what they are meant.


I think that's what everyone's been wanting to hear out of you. So essentially you're fine with the Empire giving capital to the Republic, so long as it's not used to build warships?


Yes, simply yes.



Whilst I understand that you may have the best of intentions, experience has taught us that when you try to appease terrorist regimes by buying them off you simply embolden them.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#129 - 2011-10-05 15:37:47 UTC
Merdaneth wrote:

We are offering to help assist in bringing to justice illegal Empire raids, are any of you offering to counter terrorists raids in the Empire? Or in mr. Ixiris case perhaps bring down illegal installations? I think not.


It's not just the illegal Empire slave raids that concern me (I say 'me' as I'm not certain I speak for all of my people); it's the continued legally-sanctioned enslavement of millions of people.

Offering to help eliminate the illegal raids is a noble gesture, and I'm sure the offer is appreciated -- but it's a hollow gesture to eliminate the illegal forms of slavery whle maintaining an institution that directly supports so-called 'legal' slavery.

Now, if there were concrete steps towards Empire reform, outside of the few scattered instances you've mentioned, then we might have a place from which to begin a dialogue. As it is, all we see is the Empire trying to save face by 'doing the right thing', while maintaining the status quo behind the scenes.

I need proof of the Empire's sincerity in its attempts at reconciliation.

Not more words.

Proof.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#130 - 2011-10-05 15:44:32 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Kithrus wrote:
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Kithrus wrote:
No. You of all people should know I have no issue with making reparations as long as they are used for what they are meant.


I think that's what everyone's been wanting to hear out of you. So essentially you're fine with the Empire giving capital to the Republic, so long as it's not used to build warships?


Yes, simply yes.



Whilst I understand that you may have the best of intentions, experience has taught us that when you try to appease terrorist regimes by buying them off you simply embolden them.


This is true but I wasn't thinking of giving money to terrorist.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#131 - 2011-10-05 16:46:15 UTC
Here they go again. Aren't you all tired of repeating the exact same things again and again ? It is counterproductive.

Astrid Stjerna wrote:

Yes, Elder Sadik, you are correct.


Mr Sadik is an Elder ?
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#132 - 2011-10-05 17:11:08 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Here they go again. Aren't you all tired of repeating the exact same things again and again ? It is counterproductive.



I suppose it will be talked about until the issue is resolved or eliminated. Until then...surprise! The topic goes on.

But thinking of it economically, all capital wears down as it produces goods. The mouth produces talk. Thus with this the mouth tires and begins to grow stiff, forming a permanent scowl. Furthermore, talk is cheap because supply vastly exceeds demand. Hence you are correct Lyn: this is counter-productive.

Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#133 - 2011-10-05 17:13:10 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Here they go again. Aren't you all tired of repeating the exact same things again and again ? It is counterproductive.
It's difficult to accept that we all are at fault for the situation we currently find ourselves in, that with every day it looks less and less like we'll have a peaceful solution, and that there is preciously little we can do about that.

Quote:
Mr Sadik is an Elder ?
I'm not one of the Elders who have come to so much publicity with fancy war fleets, if that is what you thought it meant. The term is used in general as a honorific and acknowledgment of status. That is, she was simply being courteous (on IGS an entirely unexpected but very welcome event).
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#134 - 2011-10-05 17:18:07 UTC
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Here they go again. Aren't you all tired of repeating the exact same things again and again ? It is counterproductive.



I suppose it will be talked about until the issue is resolved or eliminated. Until then...surprise! The topic goes on.

But thinking of it economically, all capital wears down as it produces goods. The mouth produces talk. Thus with this the mouth tires and begins to grow stiff, forming a permanent scowl. Furthermore, talk is cheap because supply vastly exceeds demand. Hence you are correct Lyn: this is counter-productive.



This is not counterproductive because of the talking in itself. This is counterproductive due to the very content of that talking. it is about things repeated countless times, and even more, by the same parties again and again. This sounds like a broken tape, or broken memory chips.


Arkady Sadik wrote:
[
Quote:
Mr Sadik is an Elder ?
I'm not one of the Elders who have come to so much publicity with fancy war fleets, if that is what you thought it meant. The term is used in general as a honorific and acknowledgment of status. That is, she was simply being courteous (on IGS an entirely unexpected but very welcome event).


Ah, you write that honorific title with a capital E too ?


Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#135 - 2011-10-05 17:27:19 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Ah, you write that honorific title with a capital E too?
Most titles are capitalized, I think? Holder, Admiral ...

Until about four years ago, there was not much of a chance of confusion there. The Elders were assumed to be a myth by most. I know the term as a honorific of some form or another for much longer than that - many clans have a Council of Elders, say. I also have to admit the possible confusion never occurred to me. Due to the somewhat seclusive life style of the Elders, it's rare that you'd address them. And I'm quite unsure about what the correct address would be, should I ever meet one. "Elder" as well, I guess.

Fascinating question. I wonder if there are lore books left from the time before the day of darkness that cover such. Hm.
Vallek Arkonnis
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2011-10-05 17:45:58 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
If the Empire is truly sincere about peace, the first move must be theirs, and it must be larger than the apparently politically-convenient emancipation of a few thousand slaves.


"It is unclear at this time exactly how many slaves are being set free in total, but all experts thus polled so far agree that the number will reach into the hundreds of millions.

“That’s going to be between six and seven hundred million slaves,” said Betancour Soraine, a senior analyst at the Federal Readjustment for Extraditions and Escapees program on Gallente Prime."

We have made the first move, and in far greater proportion than a few thousand.

Surely you can see that when every gesture is diminished and every hand slapped away as being "not good enough" or "too little too late" we wonder why we should continue to try, yet we do. It seems from the vocal Matari here it is all or nothing; imagine the backlash if we took that stance as well. We're not bringing that to the negotiating table, and if you truly want peace, neither should you.
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#137 - 2011-10-05 17:55:54 UTC
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
We have made the first move
At the same time as this move, you also called for a new Reclaiming of the remaining Minmatar. I'm very happy you freed these people,[1] but I wouldn't quite call that a move towards peace.
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#138 - 2011-10-05 18:31:48 UTC
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
We have made the first move
At the same time as this move, you also called for a new Reclaiming of the remaining Minmatar. I'm very happy you freed these people,[1] but I wouldn't quite call that a move towards peace.


A reclaimed doesn't have to be Amarr holding jurisdiction over an area.

Hearts and minds were what it was about from the start. If the Empire was to remain as it is without gaining a single planet and every soul in the cluster worshiped God then that would be more then acceptable.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Vallek Arkonnis
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#139 - 2011-10-05 19:17:06 UTC
Kithrus wrote:

A reclaimed doesn't have to be Amarr holding jurisdiction over an area.

Hearts and minds were what it was about from the start. If the Empire was to remain as it is without gaining a single planet and every soul in the cluster worshiped God then that would be more then acceptable.


Quite true. The most important goal above all others is the salvation of souls.
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#140 - 2011-10-05 21:21:54 UTC
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:

Quite true. The most important goal above all others is the salvation of souls.


And with that I propose this: words, not wars.

Modern communications can work wonders when applied correctly.