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Potential Unintentional Nerf To Vertical Fire Missiles?
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Alexei Antonov
Royal Khanid Reverie Reserves
#1 - 2012-06-04 04:26:48 UTC
Was shooting some torps off out of the phoon when I noticed something was a bit off on my torp range. Having used this guy for about 2 years now, I had become accustomed to a certain range. I noticed a few torps weren't hitting.

Going back...I checked stats, all the same nothing changed there. I should still get about 90% of flight time * speed. But when I tested with some friends I noted consistently less range. Considerable at times.


Thats when I noticed my missiles now (awesomely. Seriously...it looks great) have to curve around my ship before going to smash someone's hull in.

The end result being that missiles already limited on range like rockets, HAMs, torps etc, are going to lose flight time while they do their thing.

The flight time mechanic still starts that timer when the missile leaves the tube and rightfully so. Granted now with the effects, folks are going to lose a bit on range from missiles curving around THEN accelerating vs spawning at the center of the ship. Missiles that work on speed and not time like HAMs, Torps, etc are going to be nailed a bit harder. Heavy missiles, cruises, etc aren't really going to notice at all.


So...anyone else notice this? We've been able to reproduce it regularly with a phoon, raven, navy scorp, stealth bomber etc.

First thing that popped into my mind was starting the missile timer when the missile reaches or near cruise velocity or exteneding the timers to compensate (probably not the best due to potential balance issues.).
Marcus Ichiro
IchiCorp
#2 - 2012-06-04 05:27:47 UTC
The missile effects are just that, effects. Whether or not the missiles are fired vertically makes no difference at all.
Alexei Antonov
Royal Khanid Reverie Reserves
#3 - 2012-06-04 05:41:05 UTC
Are you sure? The missiles are physical game objects with accel and physical properties unlike guns which are purely effects. We've always had to factor in acceleration time for range and large missiles now have to spend more time accelerating around certain ship hulls taking a bit off range. Direct fire stuff with many turrets like HAMs seem to be fine.

Normally I wouldn't really jump to any conclusion, but reproduceable results on different hulls leads me otherwise :(

It's gunna bug me too. It probably wont end up being a problem with the phoon being pretty quick, but the range loss was a few km more than I was hoping ( 3 to 6) with jav torps on the hound.
Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-06-04 06:24:01 UTC
CCP 'said' that the effect changes were purely visual, though I wouldn't trust that they didn't unintentionally bork it up.
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#5 - 2012-06-04 06:53:28 UTC
Alexei Antonov wrote:
Are you sure? The missiles are physical game objects with accel and physical properties unlike guns which are purely effects. We've always had to factor in acceleration time for range and large missiles now have to spend more time accelerating around certain ship hulls taking a bit off range. Direct fire stuff with many turrets like HAMs seem to be fine.

Normally I wouldn't really jump to any conclusion, but reproduceable results on different hulls leads me otherwise :(

It's gunna bug me too. It probably wont end up being a problem with the phoon being pretty quick, but the range loss was a few km more than I was hoping ( 3 to 6) with jav torps on the hound.


if missiles would be really physical objects and their orientation, speed and trajectory calculated in real time, servers would die very quickly. Instead, server knows when missile was launched, how long it can fly, and where to (eventually) hit.

other example. launch missile at other ship on other side of the station. did the station block missiles? nope
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#6 - 2012-06-04 11:03:01 UTC
Assuming you have your missile launcher stacked. On the server side all those missiles are treated as single missile. And its server position can be at different point than what client shows (client is probably lagging behind)

So best way for you to test it is that you shoot target that is right on the edge of your missile range. What you might see on client is missile disappearing right before they hit the target. Thats because the server missile already hit the target. Compare it with logs. If it says the target was hit then you should have no issue. Just graphical fluff.
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-06-04 15:25:22 UTC
It's just different graphics, and you can tell that because sometimes the missiles do damage a few moments before they actually hit the ship.
Alexei Antonov
Royal Khanid Reverie Reserves
#8 - 2012-06-04 18:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexei Antonov
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
It's just different graphics, and you can tell that because sometimes the missiles do damage a few moments before they actually hit the ship.



I had been noticing that a few times during our tests.

I'll have to get the guys together and test this again just to make sure. We tried it with groups of two at one point and would have one entire group fail to hit with the other working.

Trying it with out groups lead to missiles on the other side of the ship having consistently less range than those fired directly at the target. Tried it the most with a junker raven I still had repackaged and one of the pewpew phoons.

The missile flying through a station means little in eve. You can fly your ship into a moon with MWD, right past the "surface" and hit the core and then go flying out at many Km/S

The server still calculates accel, velocity,and it's intercept path. You can see this anytime you fire a round off and it tracks a target that changes direction. Sometimes there is lag and the missile will "jump around" trying to hit a fast target. They may have changed how it's treated a bit, but you used to be able to actually select a missile in flight and "Look At Target" not too long ago. I agree that there could be some hiccups between server/client transmission leading to graphical weirdness. That said, everytime a missile disappeared on us it was reflected in the logs as a non-hit :(

If the tests this time show I'm blowing smoke up Eve's collective a** I'll eat my words like any good engineer :)

Thanks for the constructive replies though guys. Coming back from a 6month break it's not what I've been used to seeing in the eve forums hahahaha.
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-06-05 13:10:55 UTC
Alexei Antonov wrote:


Thanks for the constructive replies though guys. Coming back from a 6month break it's not what I've been used to seeing in the eve forums hahahaha.


Haha u n00b gb2 hisec and biomass ur character lolololol can I have your stuffz?


Feel more comfortable now?
Shaen Vesuvius
Redcoats
#10 - 2012-06-05 14:15:03 UTC
Alexei Antonov wrote:
[quote=Fleet Warpsujarento]It..
The missile flying through a station means little in eve. You can fly your ship into a moon with MWD, right past the "surface" and hit the core and then go flying out at many Km/S



This is what i love about eve, ppl getting bored enough to try these things out.

10/10 for creativity in an attempt to fight boredom.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-06-06 03:34:49 UTC
Did you consider the launcher position on a long ship ? Can make a near kilometer difference on a long ship.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-06-06 04:49:32 UTC
te server end missile functionality remained unchanged, it's a purely client side gfx buff.

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Xuse Senna
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#13 - 2012-06-06 13:34:27 UTC
If you watch closely the dmg is applied just before the torps hit their target

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7501/mindgamesceptionfinaldr.jpg