Jita Park Speakers Corner

EDIT - added this small section later on.
Due to individuals believing people can't be bothered to answer more than a handful of questions and therefore the poll would be too infrequently answered, I have provided an alternative single-question option for people that want to give an answer but find it too difficult to press many keys or read too much.

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ALTERNATIVE SHORT POLL START
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Q-SOLO : Your opinion about T2 BPOs ?
QSa) remove them
QSb) leave them alone
QSc) don't care / other - specify

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ALTERNATIVE SHORT POLL END
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I would rather prefer you answered the full poll, but... your choice.

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BELOW - ORIGINAL POST

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PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS THE ISSUE OF T2 BPOs IN THIS THREAD.
If you wish to discuss the issue, feel free to discuss it in the Science&Industry thread located here :
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=93154
This is a poll-only thread.
Please keep it to poll answers only.
Thank you.

Please answer the following multiple choice questions and the final freeform one.
10 of the multiple choice question last answer (d) allows you to specify a more appropriate reply if none of the first three choices appear appropriate enough.

Preferred answer method - copypaste the OP and delete all excess text you disagree with, then fill in additional comments.




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BIG POLL START
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1. What is your personal experience with invention ?
1a) no experience with invention
1b) lost ISK and quit inventing
1c) made ISK and quit inventing
1d) keep making ISK from invention

2. What is (in your opinion) better to invent for profit - an item with a T2 BPO or an item without T2 BPO ?
2a) one with a T2 BPO is better to invent for profit
2b) one without a T2 BPO is better to invent for profit
2c) what is better to invent for profit depends on item, regardless of T2 BPO existence
2d) other - specify

3. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for T2 item prices ?
3a) T2 items would become cheaper if T2 BPOs would be removed
3b) T2 items would become more expensive if T2 BPOs would be removed
3c) nothing would change significantly
3d) other - please specify

4. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for inventor numbers ?
4a) there would be much more inventors if T2 BPOs would be removed
4b) there would be far less inventors if T2 BPOs would be removed
4c) nothing would change significantly
4d) other - please specify

5. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for long term inventor profits ?
5a) each inventor would earn much more ISK if T2 BPOs would be removed
5b) each inventor would earn far less ISK if T2 BPOs would be removed
5c) nothing would change significantly
5d) other - please specify

6. What is your opinion about current T2 BPO market prices ?
6a) T2 BPOs are too expensive
6b) T2 BPOs are too cheap
6c) T2 BPOs are reasonably priced
6d) other - please specify

7. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a VALUABLE T2 BPO ?
7a) they got it too easily
7b) it was too hard for them to get it
7c) the difficulty was proportionate to the reward
7d) no opinion / other - please specify

8. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a random one, on average ?
8a) they got it too easily
8b) it was too hard for them to get it
8c) the difficulty was proportionate to the reward
8d) no opinion / other - please specify

9. Do you support removing T2 BPOs from the game ?
9a) I am for their removal
9b) I am against their removal
9c) I have not decided yet
9d) do not care / other - please specify

10. How would the removal or continued existence of T2 BPOs affect your subscription ?
10a) I almost quit the game because T2 BPOs were NOT removed, and will do so soon
10b) I might eventually quit the game if T2 BPOs were not removed
10c) I would quit the game if T2 BPOs WERE removed
10d) do not care / other - please specify

11. How should T2 BPO owners be compensated for the removal of T2 BPOs, if they were removed ?
11a) no compensation whatsoever
11b) a BPC with enough runs to last 5 years
11c) current market ISK value for their BPO
11d) other - please specify

12. What would be the consequence to the EVE economy for granting that compensation ?
This question should be answered in your own words.

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BIG POLL END
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Preferred answer method - copypaste the OP and delete all lines you disagree with, then fill in additional comments if you chose any of the "d" options.
Feel free to also add some final comments, but please keep it brief - this is an OPINION POLL not a discussion about whether T2 BPOs are really good or bad.

I REPEAT, PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS THE ISSUE OF T2 BPOs IN THIS THREAD.
If you wish to discuss the issue, feel free to discuss it in the Science&Industry thread located here :
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=93154
This is a poll-only thread.
Please keep it to poll answers only.
Thank you.

1. What is your personal experience with invention ?
1d) keep making ISK from invention

2. What is (in your opinion) better to invent for profit - an item with a T2 BPO or an item without T2 BPO ?
2c) what is better to invent for profit depends on item, regardless of T2 BPO existence


3. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for T2 item prices ?
3b) T2 items would become more expensive if T2 BPOs would be removed
3c) nothing would change significantly

^^^^ Depending on the item

4. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for inventor numbers ?
4c) nothing would change significantly

5. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for long term inventor profits ?
5c) nothing would change significantly

6. What is your opinion about current T2 BPO market prices ?
6a) T2 BPOs are too expensive

7. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a VALUABLE T2 BPO ?
7d) no opinion / other - please specify

8. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a random one, on average ?
8d) no opinion / other - please specify

9. Do you support removing T2 BPOs from the game ?
9b) I am against their removal
9d) do not care / other - Against wasting Dev Time on something that doesn't matter

10. How would the removal or continued existence of T2 BPOs affect your subscription ?
10d) do not care / other - Not likely to quit the game, but I'd be annoyed at the price hike on uncommon T2 goods

11. How should T2 BPO owners be compensated for the removal of T2 BPOs, if they were removed ?
11a) no compensation whatsoever - Gonna cause RageQuits
11b) a BPC with enough runs to last 5 years - Stupid (and would result in complaints about BPO-Cs for 5 more years.
11c) current market ISK value for their BPO - No such thing

12. What would be the consequence to the EVE economy for granting that compensation ?
This question should be answered in your own words.

B) Since BPCs have a max run, BPO owners would likely end up with a big stack of BPCs that could be run in parallel, allowing them to outproduce inventors in all markets for 6months-1year. Would kill invention for a while.

C) Where's the ISK coming from?

1. What is your personal experience with invention ?
1a) no experience with invention

2. What is (in your opinion) better to invent for profit - an item with a T2 BPO or an item without T2 BPO ?
2c) what is better to invent for profit depends on item, regardless of T2 BPO existence

3. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for T2 item prices ?
3d) Depends on what is the item in question - Whether or not the item is being saturated currently by a combination of low demand and active BPO production, and whether the owner has the wherewithal to maintain control over that particular market. For most T2 items in general I believe it would have a negligible effect.

4. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for inventor numbers ?
4c) nothing would change significantly

5. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for long term inventor profits ?
5c) nothing would change significantly

6. What is your opinion about current T2 BPO market prices ?
6d) other - They are expensive if you're only taking into account the tangible returns of owning one - ie, its ROI. I perceive another benefit of owning a BPO for someone who intends on sticking with EVE over the long term - The convenience factor of bypassing the invention process altogether, as well as the intangible "feeling of security" benefits of having a consistent, reliable passive income stream. So while it is too expensive for some others, it could also be fair or even considered cheap for some parties - I personally gravitate towards the latter point of view, while acknowledging that on an absolute financial POV the former makes more sense.

7. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a VALUABLE T2 BPO ?
7c) the difficulty was proportionate to the reward

8. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a random one, on average ?
8c) the difficulty was proportionate to the reward

9. Do you support removing T2 BPOs from the game ?
9b) I am against their removal

10. How would the removal or continued existence of T2 BPOs affect your subscription ?
10d) other - Everything doesn't always have to be about ragequitting, now - I'd continue playing EVE if BPOs were removed, but I feel it would be a significant overall minus to the depth of the game to remove legacy items that are a part of EVE's history - Provided said items provide benefits that do not completely unbalance the game by being too overpowered for the holders to even consider trading them on the market at all. That does not appear to be the case currently. In case of their removal I'd not unsubscribe, but I'll instead leave for another similar game where the devs don't knuckle under to the whiny segment of the gaming population, first chance I get.

11. How should T2 BPO owners be compensated for the removal of T2 BPOs, if they were removed ?
11d) other - Market value - Plus 20-50% extra to take at least acknowledge to the BPO holders who are holding them for other intangible benefits beyond financial value, as elaborated above.

T2 BPO's are a bad idea, they have always been a bad idea, they probably always will be a bad idea.

I wouldn't mind as much if the lottery was still in progress.
But it was removed - as it was a bad idea..

I wouldn't mind as much if invention weren't such a chore.
But it is.

I wouldn't mind if CCP didn't consider the free isk making machines in the game were a bad idea, with this one exception.
But they do.

Fact is, CCP have buttoned down on every free isk making machine in the game but this one and moons which are soon to come.

Fact is, it's hard to justify to people who bought isk with plex (or however) to buy these BPO's a straight removal from the game thus losing their money. I wouldn't mind if they got their cash back at fair equitable market prices.

The game mechanic is bad, it's making players who haven't plexed to success lose money, and it creates an uneven playing field - the precise thing CCP says it's against - justifying the nerfing of so many old mechanics.

This one will be a lot of work, they need to research the BPO's and find all the market values, they then need to write a program to replace the BPO's with those set amounts of isk. Then everyone who wants t2 must invent, it's an even playing field. It's simple, there are not exceptions, no market shenanigans.

I don't see what's so hard to understand that in a world where these datacores are being nerfed again to only be available to LP stores instead of researchers - that these t2 BPO's that basically create datacores for free whenever they make a t2 item - aren't being taken out of the game.

1. What is your personal experience with invention ? 1d
2. What is (in your opinion) better to invent for profit - an item with a T2 BPO or an item without T2 BPO ? 2d
It's depending how big the market for an item is. A Hobgoblin II for example isn't influenced by a T2 BPO

3. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for T2 item prices ? 3d
Most T2 owners don't try to push the prices down.
4. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for inventor numbers ? 4c
5. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for long term inventor profits ? 5c
6. What is your opinion about current T2 BPO market prices ? 6a
7. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a VALUABLE T2 BPO ? 7c
8. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a random one, on average ? 8c
9. Do you support removing T2 BPOs from the game ? 9b
10. How would the removal or continued existence of T2 BPOs affect your subscription ? 10d
I don't care
11. How should T2 BPO owners be compensated for the removal of T2 BPOs, if they were removed ? 11c
12. What would be the consequence to the EVE economy for granting that compensation ?
The amount of T2BPOs is so low, but the amount of ISK so high, it wouldn't have a consequence.

1-c
2-c
3-b
4-c
5-c
6-c reasonably priced in that specialist ships should never be so cheap as to become over-abundant, which the exclusiveity and low number of inventors assures.
7-c
8-c
9-b eventually they will be removed through game mechanics, because at soem point someone will unsibscribe, get banned, or accidentally undock with one in cargo, then POOF one less BPO.
10-d i would be annoyed if they were removed in entirety and they were not compensated, but i would not quit EvE unless SoE bought the agme.
11-d their really is no way to truly compensate them, because nothing lasts as long as a BPO, preferably a combination of ba nd c should be considered if they AHD to be removed.


12- many people who believed T2 BPO's were overpowered in the first place would still gripe sicne any compensation for the BPO's would at the same time allow the owner of said compensation to have a short-term domination of the T2 market.

sorry for not copy/pasting, but that much text makes my tiny screen on my portable cry, as it attempts to resize the text to fit the whole page instead of scrolling right/left.

1. What is your personal experience with invention ?

1c) made ISK and quit inventing


2. What is (in your opinion) better to invent for profit - an item with a T2 BPO or an item without T2 BPO ?

2c) what is better to invent for profit depends on item, regardless of T2 BPO existence


3. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for T2 item prices ?

3c) nothing would change significantly


4. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for inventor numbers ?

4c) nothing would change significantly


5. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for long term inventor profits ?

5c) nothing would change significantly


6. What is your opinion about current T2 BPO market prices ?

6d) other - please specify
It depends why you aquire a T2 BPO. Is it an investment to seel later again or are you going to use it for production.
In the first case you never can rely on the BPO keeping it's value. Who knows what CCP will come up with all of a sudden that decreases the BPO's value, or increases.
In the second case it's a very long term investment before you start seeing profit from it.

7. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a VALUABLE T2 BPO ?

7d) no opinion / other - please specify
Some got it easy, some got it hard, can't say either way as the only answer.

8. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a random one, on average ?

8d) no opinion / other - please specify
Some got it easy, some got it hard, can't say either way as the only answer.

9. Do you support removing T2 BPOs from the game ?

9b) I am against their removal


10. How would the removal or continued existence of T2 BPOs affect your subscription ?

10c) I would quit the game if T2 BPOs WERE removed
Specificly because it would be a big intervention in the game by CCP.

11. How should T2 BPO owners be compensated for the removal of T2 BPOs, if they were removed ?

11d) other - please specify
Too many answers, seeing that one can't compare BPO's with eachother like that.

12. What would be the consequence to the EVE economy for granting that compensation ?
This question should be answered in your own words.

It would be like setting fire to a big barrel of fuel inside a serverroom.

People who complain about T2 BPO's most likely never had any dealing with aquiring or trying to break even to get the cost out.
Next to that no idea how little it brings in compared to invention.

1. What is your personal experience with invention ?
1d) keep making ISK from invention
Invention has been my main source of income for nearly 2 years now.

2. What is (in your opinion) better to invent for profit - an item with a T2 BPO or an item without T2 BPO ?
2c) what is better to invent for profit depends on item, regardless of T2 BPO existence
BPOs do make my life a little easier in that there are whole groups of items I don't bother to run numbers on.

3. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for T2 item prices ?
3b) T2 items would become more expensive if T2 BPOs would be removed
3c) nothing would change significantly
Some items, which are not currently built from invention, would increase in price significantly as the new inventors would pass their costs to the customers. The new inefficiency would slightly increase demand in moon goo, which would increase prices across the board slightly. But this may be cancelled by the answer to question 5.

4. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for inventor numbers ?
4a) there would be much more inventors if T2 BPOs would be removed
I don't know about the word "much," but there would definately be more inventors. T2 BPOs are a mental barrier to entry into invention for many people. They like to start whine threads in the S&I forum. If T2 BPOs were gone, they may start inventing.

5. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for long term inventor profits ?
5b) each inventor would earn far less ISK if T2 BPOs would be removed
Again, I don't know about the adverb "far", but if there are more inventors in the market with approximately the same demand, there will be more competition. More competition means less profits.

6. What is your opinion about current T2 BPO market prices ?
6c) T2 BPOs are reasonably priced
"Everything is worth what the buyer is willing to pay." If they were cheaper, I might buy one just to reduce my logistics. At the current prices, I won't--but obviously other people do.

7. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a VALUABLE T2 BPO ?
7c) the difficulty was proportionate to the reward
The current owners got them in so many ways, this question is realy irrelevant. If they got it from the lottery-there were many people in the lottery. Some got lucky, some didn't. If they got it from looting from a ship they blew up-that is just like the lottery. If they were a corp thief-good for them. If they paid isk-they must have paid a price agreed upon by both the buyer and seller.

8. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a random one, on average ?
8c) the difficulty was proportionate to the reward
Same as #7.

9. Do you support removing T2 BPOs from the game ?
9b) I am against their removal
T2 BPOs represent a collector's item. People are paying huge sums of isk for them. People strive to get them as a goal in game. These people would be extremely upset if their investment or goal was taken away. I have yet to see a good argument why removal would significantly benefit anybody. Why remove an aspect of the game and make players upset for no good reason?

10. How would the removal or continued existence of T2 BPOs affect your subscription ?
10d) do not care / other - please specify
I will continue to subscribe, until I decide to quit. T2 BPOs will not factor in the decision.

11. How should T2 BPO owners be compensated for the removal of T2 BPOs, if they were removed ?
11d) other - please specify
See question 12.

12. What would be the consequence to the EVE economy for granting that compensation ?
This question should be answered in your own words.
No compensation at all is not an option. People paid massive ammounts of isk for these. I answered #10 that I won't quit over them. However, to suddenly remove them would be stealing from many of the oldest, wealthiest, most influential players in the game. Many of theose people probably would.
Giving market value is not an option. How is that value determined? Also, there are how many T2 BPOs in game? 10,000? Each worth 10 or 11 digits to the left of the decimal point? Suddenly infusing that much isk into the game would cause massive inflation.
Changing them all to large run BPCs would have the least impact on the economy. So it is the only possible answer. Still, that means taking away from the depth of the game for no good reason. So why do it?

1. What is your personal experience with invention ?
1c) made ISK and quit inventing

2. What is (in your opinion) better to invent for profit - an item with a T2 BPO or an item without T2 BPO ?
2c) what is better to invent for profit depends on item, regardless of T2 BPO existence

3. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for T2 item prices ?
3b) T2 items would become more expensive if T2 BPOs would be removed

4. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for inventor numbers ?
4a) there would be much more inventors if T2 BPOs would be removed

(note that I would not say *much* more, but significantly more)

5. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for long term inventor profits ?
5c) nothing would change significantly

6. What is your opinion about current T2 BPO market prices ?
6a) T2 BPOs are too expensive

7. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a VALUABLE T2 BPO ?
7c) the difficulty was proportionate to the reward

8. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a random one, on average ?
8a) they got it too easily

(note that I think you need to differentiate lottery winner T2 BPO owners from T2 BPO buyers. I am assuming the average T2 BPO owner is a lottery winner)

9. Do you support removing T2 BPOs from the game ?
9b) I am against their removal

10. How would the removal or continued existence of T2 BPOs affect your subscription ?
10d) do not care / other - please specify

Not worth quitting over, but it would be a bad move.

11. How should T2 BPO owners be compensated for the removal of T2 BPOs, if they were removed ?
11b) a BPC with enough runs to last 5 years

12. What would be the consequence to the EVE economy for granting that compensation ?
The BPC solution seems like it would have the best consequences on the market of the options, which is why I picked it. I think it would extend the status quo for some time, but once the BPC ran out, you wouldn't really have a better market. I think T2 BPOs are really good end game content for industry focused guys.

FYI, I bought my 2 T2 BPOs off the market with profits I made from invention.

1. What is your personal experience with invention ?
1a) no experience with invention

2. What is (in your opinion) better to invent for profit - an item with a T2 BPO or an item without T2 BPO ?
2c) what is better to invent for profit depends on item, regardless of T2 BPO existence

3. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for T2 item prices ?
3c) nothing would change significantly

4. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for inventor numbers ?
4a) there would be much more inventors if T2 BPOs would be removed

5. What would (in your opinion) be the consequence of removing all T2 BPOs from the game for long term inventor profits ?
5c) nothing would change significantly

6. What is your opinion about current T2 BPO market prices ?
6d) other - please specify

I don't really care one way or another what anybody is willing to pay for a T2 BPO.

7. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a VALUABLE T2 BPO ?
7d) no opinion / other - please specify

How they obtained them is irrelevant.

8. What is your opinion about efforts made by current T2 BPO owners to own a random one, on average ?
8d) no opinion / other - please specify

How they obtained them is irrelevant.

9. Do you support removing T2 BPOs from the game ?
9a) I am for their removal

10. How would the removal or continued existence of T2 BPOs affect your subscription ?
10d) do not care / other - please specify

Their continued existence would not be a deciding factor in my subscription but their removal would be better for the game overall, despite the inevitable gnashing of the teeth from the owners.

11. How should T2 BPO owners be compensated for the removal of T2 BPOs, if they were removed ?
11d) other - please specify

Existing BPCs not created through invention are nuked, BPOs are replaced with BPCs with an arbitrary number of runs. Any ME/PE is reset to 0 as to help level the playing field for inventors.

12. What would be the consequence to the EVE economy for granting that compensation ?
I do not see any downsides to this.