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New to BS and L4's
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Farsight Incursion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-10-05 02:42:52 UTC
So im about to step into a BS in a week or 2 and Will plan on running L4's Solo. Currently trained in pure Amarr so will be running Amarr ships only. Not sure what to go with for PVE stuck between a APOC and a ABAD. would it be smarter to go with a Apoc because its cheaper? or spend the extra cost for more HP? And last for those who say I should go ABAD would your opinion change if I were to get a APOC and then get the Navy version once I have the LP? also any fittings would be greatly appreciated!
Goose99
#2 - 2011-10-05 02:59:19 UTC
Farsight Incursion wrote:
So im about to step into a BS in a week or 2 and Will plan on running L4's Solo. Currently trained in pure Amarr so will be running Amarr ships only. Not sure what to go with for PVE stuck between a APOC and a ABAD. would it be smarter to go with a Apoc because its cheaper? or spend the extra cost for more HP? And last for those who say I should go ABAD would your opinion change if I were to get a APOC and then get the Navy version once I have the LP? also any fittings would be greatly appreciated!


Start with geddon instead. It's more noob friendly, plus has the winner 8 low slot layout.
Farsight Incursion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-10-05 03:08:34 UTC
Was originally going to do that but then a few people talked me out of it saying it would be a waste of Isk? I will be staying in L3's for a bit to make sure I can understand my ship a bit before taking it into L4's
Amonestos
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2011-10-05 04:02:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Amonestos
I started in a Geddon with pretty low skills (3 or 4 million skillpoints) and *could* do level 4s, but lost 1 or two of the ships. The missions took awhile too. It's not such a forgiving ship with low skills compared to the APOC in my opinion... especially when it comes to cap, and the range requires you to run an AB/MWD to be able to pummel everything.

My suggestion would be an APOC. The difference between the two for PVE is pretty noticeable, to me at least. Use beams until you can fit t2 pulses + scorch and get Battleship to at least 4 ASAP. T2 tank it with mission specific hardeners and use a noctis to salvage.

Abaddons are great as well, but in my opinion, just more expensive for what an APOC can easily do. I don't have any troubles in my APOC, if it isn't broke, don't fix it? :) Plus, the money you save choosing an APOC vs an Abaddon will buy you a noctis.

Once you pump out a ton of missions/isk you can upgrade to an Abaddon, or better yet, a Navy Apoc or a Nightmare/Paladin.

Ideally I would suggest ... Apoc, upgrade to Navy Apoc using LPs and skilling up to 4s/5s in relevant skills and T2 everything, upgrade to Nightmare/Paladin (if you want)

Here's my APOC, it's cheap and does every level 4 easily and pretty quick.

[Apocalypse, Grim Finger] (Cap Stable at 50%)

High Slots

Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
(Imperial Navy Ultraviolets and Multifrequency through LP store)
Drone Link Augmentor I
(A lot of people don't use the DLA, but I love it since I hit out past 80k and don't have to wait 30k to close in for my drones to also engage)

Mid Slots

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Orion Tracking CPU I (Range/Speed)

Low Slots

Large Armor Repair II
Mission Primary Hardener II
Mission Primary Hardener II
Mission Secondary Hardener II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
(If you need extra tank in a mission... swap out a HS for another hardener of your chosen damage type, based on the mission, or a DCUII)

Rigs

CCCx3

Drones

Mission Specific if you want, but 5x Hobs with 5x Hammers are cool enough usually

Pretty much anything similar to that give or take will have you knocking out level 4s. This is in Amarr space, of course. Anywhere else, get a diff ship... if you want, add me as a contact in game and send me an EVE mail and you can come join me on some level 4s, since they are quite different from 3s. It would give you time to understand your ship before you go out and solo.
Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-10-05 05:07:05 UTC
What that guy said. Abaddon is best when you have better skills. Apoc is more noob friendly for sure. Also, do not worry to much about being cap stable. Just make sure your tank is cap stable. After that pulse your weapons or you can pulse your tank instead. Another option is to use cap boosters... lol but that can get risky fast.

The above fit is actually what I would recommend as well. Happy hunting.

Something clever
Farsight Incursion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-10-05 05:44:52 UTC
Ahh some great advice, much appreciated!! Now the problem if I can stand a ship that looks like a Giant space Dildo (Apoc) Roll
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-10-05 06:03:13 UTC
Using LPs to buy a ship is a terrible, terrible idea unless you really don't want to bother converting them to loads of ISK and then just buying the ship outright.

I don't play my Amarr alt that much these days. The big Amarr ships just never seemed to be as fun as I thought they would be, though to be fair, I didn't quite have the skills for a lot of them. (I did run a few L4s in a Slicer for the lulz. They took a long time, but it was more fun.)

This is the fit I used:


[Apocalypse, Mine]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
'Refuge' Adaptive Nano Plating I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Large Armor Repairer II

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines
Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I

Hobgoblin I x5

I'm not sure I'd recommend it, but it was good for warping in and staying still while killing stuff as it comes in. With Multifrequency range is 59+41 (comps in range mode, switch to tracking once stuff is within 40km) Max targeting range is 135km with perfect skills and SeBo set to range. Normally I keep it set to help me target faster.

Biggest problem I have is it eats Cap Booster 800 charges like hotcakes and still lacks a decent tank. It mainly shines in missions where enemies spawn at like 70km and die before they really become an issue. (which describes a lot of the L4s I got) It sucks when things spawn in close or you have to move far to get to an acceleration gate.

(Oh, my exploration alt is also in a Legion, and will probably never fly any larger Amarrian ship.)
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-10-05 06:06:54 UTC
+1 to the advice here. An Apoc is great with its range and cap uage bonus.

I would also add; hold off on buying an Abaddon until you have your cap recharge skill and cap capacity skills both at 5, as well as the controlled bursts to 5 too.

In regards to EFT's cap stability percentage numbers, it may be important to keep cap stability in the green by cycling your weapons manually rather than all of them firing as 1 group of 8.

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Amonestos
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-10-05 08:12:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Amonestos
Mavnas is right, buying a ship outright using LP isn't the best reward for your LP isk wise but it's a lazy man's way out :) The alternative is play the market with LP items and sell them and make much more isk with 600k LP than you would need to buy a Navypoc for ~400 mil or whatever they are now :)

Whatever's clever, probably by the time you're close to either (being able to afford a Navypoc in isk or LP) you'll have a much better understand of exactly what and how you want to fly it anyway!

Anyways, all racial ships look funny :) Domi = space potato, phoon = space potato gun, raven = bad art, whatever. Being what you called it has advantages! The ladies likes it ;)
Kanalkrank
KKKorp
#10 - 2011-10-05 10:50:42 UTC
I thinki that pulse much better than beam. Enough rank with more tracking speed and less cap need
Vernice Cicali
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-10-05 11:22:23 UTC
Kanalkrank wrote:
I thinki that pulse much better than beam. Enough rank with more tracking speed and less cap need


If you can use t2 pulse lasers I would agree right away, but without scorch the dps might be too low with pulses. I would just advice to try with both, if your skills are good enough (or the npc's orbit close enough) use pulses, else use beams until you can use t2 pulses.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-10-05 15:47:23 UTC
Kanalkrank wrote:
I thinki that pulse much better than beam. Enough rank with more tracking speed and less cap need


Pulse without Scorch just doesn't have the kind of range you need for L4 missions, especially on a battleship that crawls along even under the best circumstances.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#13 - 2011-10-05 17:01:11 UTC
There's generally good advice here already, but I'll throw in for the Apoc over an Abaddon for starting out. I most certainly would not go for an Armageddon, which requires sentry/heavy drones to be effective over the other options -- and even then it still runs into similar cap problems to the Abaddon.

Frankly, I'm a little put off the Abaddon in general. It's a great ship, don't get me wrong. But by the time you can fly one effectively, you are so close to either a Paladin or a Nightmare that it never gets a chance to shine (unless you have massive skills and low isk). It's a cap hog and isn't all that lenient on fittings.

One thing I'd invest in early on for any Amarr BS is an IN LAR. The shorter cycle time really helps dealing with burst damage and can help you get the extra edge you might need to keep from warping out.

On the Apoc, I could see an argument for using T1 pulses, but that's the only ship I'd try it on -- and for most purposes I wouldn't do it there either. Pulses without Scorch don't have the range you really need for many Sansha/BR missions. Pulses also suffer much more than beams under tracking disruption which, from NPCs, only screws with optimal and not falloff -- and pulses just don't have any falloff to make up for the loss of optimal. Beams do.

Also, about that suggestion of a DLA in the last high on the Apoc -- I wouldn't. The Apoc can and should fit 8 guns. Considering the lengths we all go to to get 5% more damage, losing 12.5% right off the top seems silly. Training up EWAR Drone Interfacing and getting ~57km drone control range should be plenty. The little guys are mostly there for frigates and close orbiting cruisers anyhow.
Bormegil
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2011-10-05 17:12:31 UTC
Amonestos wrote:

Here's my APOC, it's cheap and does every level 4 easily and pretty quick.

[Apocalypse, Grim Finger] (Cap Stable at 50%)

High Slots

Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I
(Imperial Navy Ultraviolets and Multifrequency through LP store)
Drone Link Augmentor I
(A lot of people don't use the DLA, but I love it since I hit out past 80k and don't have to wait 30k to close in for my drones to also engage)

Mid Slots

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Orion Tracking CPU I (Range/Speed)

Low Slots

Large Armor Repair II
Mission Primary Hardener II
Mission Primary Hardener II
Mission Secondary Hardener II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
(If you need extra tank in a mission... swap out a HS for another hardener of your chosen damage type, based on the mission, or a DCUII)

Rigs

CCCx3

Drones

Mission Specific if you want, but 5x Hobs with 5x Hammers are cool enough usually


I would highly urge -not- wasting a turret slot on a drone link. I'd rather the 52 extra DPS (my crap skills) than spending that much extra time watching my hammerheads slowboat toward their objective. No matter what way I look at it you're losing out by killing a turret.

And for new, low-skilled mission runners, I'd recommend a dual rep tank. Especially when you're still figuring out the triggers and aggro; in most instances one just does not cut it. It'll take more cap mods to get it to fit, but it is quite possible to keep stable. And it's much, much safer. (I'll admit, I barely made it out on several occasions while still learning, and had it not been for two overheated armour reps, I'd definitely have died a few times.)
Amonestos
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-10-05 17:39:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Amonestos
For the record I don't use a drone link augmentor anymore, but for a low skillpoint setup, you may have trouble fitting all 8 guns with a t2 repper on there, and I doubt you have the 200 mil lying around for a imperial navy repairer. Even then, that only saves you 300 powergrid, hardly the almost 3000 you need for another gun. If you can fit 8 guns, do it, if not, drone link augmentor is a good last slot alternative til your skills get higher. Remember, each repper is at least 2000 pg, and each gun is roughly 3500. That get's chewed up REAL quick. He definitely cannot fit 8 guns with 2 reppers. Not without pg implants and advanced weapons upgrades 4-5.

You have to remember, he's just getting into a battleship, so the fits you use probably won't be applicable for him right away :)
Bormegil
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2011-10-05 17:58:03 UTC
Amonestos wrote:
For the record I don't use a drone link augmentor anymore, but for a low skillpoint setup, you may have trouble fitting all 8 guns with a t2 repper on there, and I doubt you have the 200 mil lying around for a imperial navy repairer. Even then, that only saves you 300 powergrid, hardly the almost 3000 you need for another gun. If you can fit 8 guns, do it, if not, drone link augmentor is a good last slot alternative til your skills get higher. Remember, each repper is at least 2000 pg, and each gun is roughly 3500. That get's chewed up REAL quick. He definitely cannot fit 8 guns with 2 reppers. Not without pg implants and advanced weapons upgrades 4-5.

You have to remember, he's just getting into a battleship, so the fits you use probably won't be applicable for him right away :)


Actually, they are quite applicable. Chances are his skills are better than mine. I just started using battleships and running level 4s less than a week ago. Granted, I'm using a Navy issue Apocalypse which allows an extra low slot to fix cap issues. But I don't yet even have the advanced weapon upgrades skill. Just takes a little ingenuity and a cheap (+3%) power implant. I'm cap stable, two reppers, and as many hardeners as I feel necessary for the mission at hand. And who said anything about t2 reppers? I couldn't even use those when I started. The accommodation reppers are nearly as good, and suck up less powergrid.

Anyway, check and doublecheck your fit, whatever you end up going with. Sometimes it's better to fit 8x non-mega lasers than 7x megas. It certainly was in my own case, before I figured out how to get the bigger guns to fit.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2011-10-05 18:32:25 UTC
My first BS was an Armageddon.

I used the meta 4 of the smallest "large" energy turrets: Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I
7 of those - they give the best DPS per unit cap consumed (except for faction stuff)
1 Drone link or heavy Nos

3 CCC rigs
At least 2 cap recharger II s
4 mission specific hardeners
DC II
1-2 large armor reppers
The rest were heat sinks

Plus a full drone bay of course (5 lights, 5 mediums, 2 heavies) - lights and mediums needed for the smaller ships.

It didn't have the fastest completion times, but it was sufficient none the less.
Aesiron
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2011-10-05 18:45:04 UTC
Farsight Incursion wrote:
So im about to step into a BS in a week or 2 and Will plan on running L4's Solo. Currently trained in pure Amarr so will be running Amarr ships only. Not sure what to go with for PVE stuck between a APOC and a ABAD. would it be smarter to go with a Apoc because its cheaper? or spend the extra cost for more HP? And last for those who say I should go ABAD would your opinion change if I were to get a APOC and then get the Navy version once I have the LP? also any fittings would be greatly appreciated!


- I would highly recommend the Apocalypse. It is not the cheapest but it is definitely the most noob-friendly. It has good capacitor and it has range. In some cases you may be able to avoid heavy damage by firing from 60km+ with the Apocalypse and that can often help. The Apocalypse has a decent drone bay and is a good-enough tank.

8x Mega Pulse Laser II

3x Cap Recharger II
1x Tracking Computer II

3x Heat Sink II
3x Mission Specific Hardener II
1x Large Armor Repairer

2x Large CCC
1x Large Auxiliary Nano Pump

5x Hobgoblin II
5x Hammerhead II

This is my current fit and it does great.

Another thing I recommend is fitting a tech 2 drake for level 4s. In cases where tanking is more needed and when you need to deal Kinetic damage. Switch to the drake.
Bormegil
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2011-10-05 19:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Bormegil
Aesiron wrote:

Another thing I recommend is fitting a tech 2 drake for level 4s. In cases where tanking is more needed and when you need to deal Kinetic damage. Switch to the drake.


Yeah. Good luck taking out something like Angel battleships with an Apocalypse. Best way to ensure you actually hit them is by selecting your target, looking at it and lining your view up so you're looking dead on at the ship's engines from behind. Double click (or triple or quadruple click to make up for the generally unresponsive nature of commands in EVE) just below the target ship; end result is that your own ship should align at full speed in more or less the same direction as the target is headed. It'll make it actually possible to hit the ships, as -- if you just let them orbit at 7km as they seem to like doing -- your lasers are barely even going to break their tank. You'll do crap damage either way, but crap damage is better than no damage. If they start orbiting, you'll have to keep clicking and manually piloting to match their orbit.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-10-05 22:01:18 UTC
Bormegil wrote:
Aesiron wrote:

Another thing I recommend is fitting a tech 2 drake for level 4s. In cases where tanking is more needed and when you need to deal Kinetic damage. Switch to the drake.


Yeah. Good luck taking out something like Angel battleships with an Apocalypse. Best way to ensure you actually hit them is by selecting your target, looking at it and lining your view up so you're looking dead on at the ship's engines from behind. Double click (or triple or quadruple click to make up for the generally unresponsive nature of commands in EVE) just below the target ship; end result is that your own ship should align at full speed in more or less the same direction as the target is headed. It'll make it actually possible to hit the ships, as -- if you just let them orbit at 7km as they seem to like doing -- your lasers are barely even going to break their tank. You'll do crap damage either way, but crap damage is better than no damage. If they start orbiting, you'll have to keep clicking and manually piloting to match their orbit.


If you run into any Angel Battleships in your Apoc... you're doing it wrong.
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