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HiSec security is CCP's responsibility.
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Katsumi1980
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#141 - 2012-06-02 19:26:17 UTC
Concord could definitely use some tweaking, or increased penalties for attacking players as the way it works now is a joke. If there were serious drawbacks to losing sec status no one would do it.

I hate the thought of ruining anyone's fun in the game they love, but if anything has come out of it: it has shown pilots to always tank properly. I'm willing to bet that well over 80% of all kills come from "stupid" losses. Miners who wanted profit over tank, one's who were afk mining, despite knowing current events, ore other silly mistakes (I actually read somewhere on twitter where a miner attempted to attack a pirate, after refitting his covetor in what he THOUGHT would take out the pirate. lol).

That being said though I do think Concord does need a bit of tweaking if highsec is declared to be a secure area. I'd like to see an actual CCP dev post on what their intentions of HS is though, not opinions on people, but a post from someone who designed the systems/game itself. My opinion is HS is supposed to be generally "SAFER". Without any guarantees.
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2012-06-02 19:51:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Degren
These are much more fun when they're not made by the ganker alts

Hello, hello again.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#143 - 2012-06-02 19:54:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Someone could please explain me why much harsher games than EvE don't have any "hi sec" at all, while the so self proclaimed PvP Game Of Consequences does?

Hi sec is fail. In the other PvP games people are made in condition to go around and do their stuff killing what's in the way. Not in EvE. There have to be some faceless NPCs, some sick twisted hidden timers and 1000 rules and exceptions, why all of this? Because of abusers? Odd, every game has plenty, they still manage.

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Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#144 - 2012-06-02 19:55:34 UTC
Hi sec does not consist soley of 1. and .9 space

Epire does not consist of only hi sec systems

Concord would have to shoot anyone that targets another play in hi sec to stop suicide ganking

It's called SUICIDE GANKING for a reason

If CCP didn't want people to get ganked in hi sec they wouldn't allow things like burn jita and hulkageddon in the first place.

The game depends on people losing ships in all sec systems.

If people ignore the part of the tutorial that WARNS YOU that you're entering dangerous space and could lose your ship, that's their fault. Coincidentally, that warning is given prior to entering a .9 system. WTF!

It is intended that NO SYSTEM is 100% safe, nor would the game function properly if it was. The only change is the amount of time it takes concord to respond to agression. That is intended.

If CCP didn't want people to be able to gank they would have made it impossible years ago.

If ganking was hurting the game, EVE wouldn't be one of only a few subsciption based MMO's that has seen overall growth each year sinse it's release.

It is your responcibility to take steps to protect yourself, not CCP's.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#145 - 2012-06-02 20:41:57 UTC
Katsumi1980 wrote:
That being said though I do think Concord does need a bit of tweaking if highsec is declared to be a secure area. I'd like to see an actual CCP dev post on what their intentions of HS is though, not opinions on people, but a post from someone who designed the systems/game itself. My opinion is HS is supposed to be generally "SAFER". Without any guarantees.

Since when is Highsec supposed to be secure?

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#146 - 2012-06-02 20:44:25 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Katsumi1980 wrote:
That being said though I do think Concord does need a bit of tweaking if highsec is declared to be a secure area. I'd like to see an actual CCP dev post on what their intentions of HS is though, not opinions on people, but a post from someone who designed the systems/game itself. My opinion is HS is supposed to be generally "SAFER". Without any guarantees.

Since when is Highsec supposed to be secure?


The obvious answer?

When people realized the the only threat posed to them in hi sec was other players.


Let's think about this for a second.
If players aren't a threat to a hi sec miner, what is?
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#147 - 2012-06-02 20:48:17 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Katsumi1980 wrote:
That being said though I do think Concord does need a bit of tweaking if highsec is declared to be a secure area. I'd like to see an actual CCP dev post on what their intentions of HS is though, not opinions on people, but a post from someone who designed the systems/game itself. My opinion is HS is supposed to be generally "SAFER". Without any guarantees.

Since when is Highsec supposed to be secure?


The obvious answer?

When people realized the the only threat posed to them in hi sec was other players.


Let's think about this for a second.
If players aren't a threat to a hi sec miner, what is?

But players ARE a threat, therefor it is not secure.

Too bad they fixed all the issues that could allow someone to sic CONCORD on a target, that would have gotten the point across quite well Cool

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2012-06-02 20:50:01 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
You failed to notice Eve's population has continually increased, except after that Incarna fiasco but it's recovering from that, and all signs form the past point to that trend continuing


Actually, there's a sharp decline in server population following Inferno, if you actually look at server graph instead of making assumptions. The last decline was following the Aur fiasco.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#149 - 2012-06-02 20:54:13 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
You failed to notice Eve's population has continually increased, except after that Incarna fiasco but it's recovering from that, and all signs form the past point to that trend continuing


Actually, there's a sharp decline in server population following Inferno, if you actually look at server graph instead of making assumptions. The last decline was following the Aur fiasco.


Since your post is an obvious hidden assumption that a bunch of players quit, for whatever reason, I'd like to make one as well.


The new unified inventory broke a bunch of bot programs. Obviously just an assumption.

Or like every year, summer time is here and there is a dip in activety, not a loss in subscribers.



PS: Your statement doesn't say **** about subscriptions.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2012-06-02 20:59:53 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
You failed to notice Eve's population has continually increased, except after that Incarna fiasco but it's recovering from that, and all signs form the past point to that trend continuing


Actually, there's a sharp decline in server population following Inferno, if you actually look at server graph instead of making assumptions. The last decline was following the Aur fiasco.


Since your post is an obvious hidden assumption that a bunch of players quit, for whatever reason, I'd like to make one as well.


The new unified inventory broke a bunch of bot programs. Obviously just an assumption.

Or like every year, summer time is here and there is a dip in activety, not a loss in subscribers.



PS: Your statement doesn't say **** about subscriptions.


Bot programs have already been updated, has been since day 2 of Inferno. It's not as easy to find out as Googling the subject. Knowing Russian helps.

There was no corresponding sharp drop for this time last summer.

I assumed nothing, just pointed out facts that you may then interpret yourself... also that your interpretations happen to be wrong.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#151 - 2012-06-02 21:06:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
sabre906 wrote:


Bot programs have already been updated, has been since day 2 of Inferno. It's not as easy to find out as Googling the subject. Knowing Russian helps.

There was no corresponding sharp drop for this time last summer.

I assumed nothing, just pointed out facts that you may then interpret yourself... also that your interpretations happen to be wrong.


I like that.

You're not making any assumptions, but you make a statement you have no way of being able to prove. Bot programs are updated, because some russion sites apparently have released updated software. Obviously this translates to all the bot programs being updated,and even more obvious that all the bots are russian.


NVM, found the graphs.

You should learn to read the graphs a little better.
Jalabaster
Aether Ventures
#152 - 2012-06-02 21:17:32 UTC
I once was new to the game. And like yourself, lost ships in silly situations where I could blame no one but myself.

After each loss to another player, I made the deliberate decision to pause, and evaluate what happened.
What could I have done to avoid the situation?
What could I have done to increase my odds of survival?
What modules could I fit to my ship that would help me survive a similar situation, whilst still being able to accomplish my objectives?
What actions can I take to draw less attention to myself?

Every question you ask should be asking what YOU can do to make yourself a better, more prepared, and more aware pilot.

After some time, I began to realize that I was not learning the ropes at a pace which was acceptable to me. And I realized that the major factor in this was that I was living in high security space, surrounded by people who had no intention of learning or progressing forward as a human player. My peers measured their progress in isk. I wanted to measure my progress in knowledge.

So me and some friends found a nice little wormhole, and decided to give it a try. My intention was to accelerate my learning, with little regard for isk. For months my friends and I were bleeding isk. Every cent we made went towards starbase fuel and replacing lost ships/pods. But I didn't care. I was learning useful things every time I logged in.

I urge anyone who relates to the OP's sentiments to measure their progress in knowledge, rather than isk.

It's never fun to lose ships and equipment, but EVE is a universe where non-consensual pvp is the norm. And ultimately, that translates to a more enjoyable and rewarding gameplay experience. Embrace this, and you will find that the only thing wrong with hisec is that it slows your progress forward as a player.

Keep your stick on the ice,
Jala

"when a ship is blown up, the pilot usually winds up replacing it. This drives the economy, steadies inflation, and gives industrialists a reason to manufacture. In contrast, creating isk while never losing any items has the unfortunate reverse effect on the market, plus it isn't really any fun." Jala
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2012-06-02 21:52:43 UTC
Jalabaster wrote:
I once was new to the game. And like yourself, lost ships in silly situations where I could blame no one but myself.

After each loss to another player, I made the deliberate decision to pause, and evaluate what happened.
What could I have done to avoid the situation?
What could I have done to increase my odds of survival?
What modules could I fit to my ship that would help me survive a similar situation, whilst still being able to accomplish my objectives?
What actions can I take to draw less attention to myself?

Every question you ask should be asking what YOU can do to make yourself a better, more prepared, and more aware pilot.

After some time, I began to realize that I was not learning the ropes at a pace which was acceptable to me. And I realized that the major factor in this was that I was living in high security space, surrounded by people who had no intention of learning or progressing forward as a human player. My peers measured their progress in isk. I wanted to measure my progress in knowledge.

So me and some friends found a nice little wormhole, and decided to give it a try. My intention was to accelerate my learning, with little regard for isk. For months my friends and I were bleeding isk. Every cent we made went towards starbase fuel and replacing lost ships/pods. But I didn't care. I was learning useful things every time I logged in.

I urge anyone who relates to the OP's sentiments to measure their progress in knowledge, rather than isk.

It's never fun to lose ships and equipment, but EVE is a universe where non-consensual pvp is the norm. And ultimately, that translates to a more enjoyable and rewarding gameplay experience. Embrace this, and you will find that the only thing wrong with hisec is that it slows your progress forward as a player.

Keep your stick on the ice,
Jala


Wh will teach you basically nothing relevant to highsec ganking. It's comparing apples to oranges. When you're dealing with large population of concord protected greys in every turn, no amount of directional cycling will matter. Unlike in wh, where methodical directional cycling (or having a bot doing it for you) practically guarantees safety, safely flying a filmsy barge in highsec is largely a factor of luck.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#154 - 2012-06-02 22:15:20 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Wh will teach you basically nothing relevant to highsec ganking. It's comparing apples to oranges. When you're dealing with large population of concord protected greys in every turn, no amount of directional cycling will matter. Unlike in wh, where methodical directional cycling (or having a bot doing it for you) practically guarantees safety, safely flying a filmsy barge in highsec is largely a factor of luck.

Or, you could have a buddy mine with you, 3 webs in each of your midslots, and triple web each other while actively aligned. That way in the 3-4 seconds that they are on your overview is more than enough time to warp out. Very simple.

But that would require that you pay attention and adapt to changing situations.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#155 - 2012-06-02 22:22:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
sabre906 wrote:
Actually, there's a sharp decline in server population following Inferno, if you actually look at server graph instead of making assumptions. The last decline was following the Aur fiasco.
Actually, no.

There was a sharp decline in server population following the release of D3. Since Inferno, it has begun to recover (PCU numbers collected through API via Chribba).

Quote:
There was no corresponding sharp drop for this time last summer.
…maybe because there was no major AAA release happening at the same time. Hmm?