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War Dec Changes
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TJ Hanaya

Wings of Grace

Likes received: 19

#81 - 2012-05-31 09:04:33 UTC

[quote=Te Tapunui

The established playerbase were attracted to eve BECAUSE its harsh. We enjoy the risks, because it makes the rewards so much sweeter.

I also strongly disagree with the standard carebear argument of "move to lowsec/nullsec for REAL PVP". I personally believe the most skillful PVP is to be had in a highsec war. Its the last true bastion of solo PVP.
[/quote]

This

Themick Mccoy

Likes received: 38

#82 - 2012-06-01 18:43:30 UTC | Edited by: Themick Mccoy

Yewan wrote:

So no more getting out of a war declared on you. Small indi corps like mine get screwed either way: You pay to surrender or you pay to find an ally.

Now you will see player owned griefing corps who a) start wars so that b) their silent partners can reap rewards from ally contracts.

I get that the mechanics of the game design shouldn't allow an "out" in a sandbox game. On the other hand, the game should foster all play styles. While 70 percent or more like PvP, there are still some of us that just like to fly ships, research, make Isk etc...so... game tweaks to close a loophole which allows players to escape griefing but no tweak to actually remove the option to grief to begin with. Developer on record saying "yes we know that griefing will continue, but hopefully it will be more expensive and less incentive for it to happen"...

Lots of evidence showing that a core group of players enjoy Eve because of griefing and evidence showing that usually ambivalent players will tend to grief when there are no consequences (lord of the flies effect).

Definition of griefing: forcing another player (victim) to live with the consequence of the first players intention to cause harm or grief, sometimes for profit but not necessarily, thereby diluting the experience of the victim.

Since certain game elements require a player owned corp (POS / tax control for instance), opting out of player owned corporation means giving up or diluting the game experience.

Sounds like fun.

On it's face it seems that the new changes are almost made to order for the "small indi corps," but I don't know if that is true. Everyone and their brother can now join in as an ally and overall, I am on the fence about it. New wardecs are going to be on the decline with this new system, and merc contracts will most likely be less abundant and more expensive. However, the majority of the entities that join as an ally have no real value to the target of the dec and will not really be interested in lending a hand.

It is my opinion that joining as an ally should not be free, that there should be some sort of cost added to that end of the system. After talking last night with a merc corp CEO, a couple ideas came to us:

(1)Either have the ally charge at half the overall rate it cost the hostile entity to create the dec, or have the cost charged to the target of the dec. If it were the former, all a merc or pvp corp coming in as an ally have to do is add the cost to the contract.

(2)Place a cap onto how many entities can join as an ally. Having the cap set at 10 allies would prompt the target of the dec to want to pick the better ally to join, and also encourage people to help out with the war instead of camping an undock in a trade hub while the target of the dec is still being slaughtered.

Thoughts?

My new goal is to bubble a super....but who is going to kill it for me?

Jokus Balim

Miner At Heart

Likes received: 20

#83 - 2012-06-02 10:45:49 UTC | Edited by: Jokus Balim

I like the change. Wardec a single corp and half of New Eden can shoot at you. And you can shoot back. It's like lowsec without gate guns and hot drops. And there are actual "civil targets" like industrials and mining ships! Frigates are so much more a viable choice now.

You have issues to get your stuff from the trade hubs? Get a second account for that stuff. You don't want to? It takes less than a week to have a second toon on your own account that can fly a Mammoth (or something similar).

Natural CloneKiller

Commonwealth Mercenaries

BLACKFLAG.

Likes received: 472

#84 - 2012-06-02 19:27:03 UTC

New War Dec changes = -1 from me.

1. Promotes small corps/Alliances getting War dec'ed loads.
2. Promotes Defenders geting lots of free Ally's coz ppl just want free wars.
3. Puts Mercs out of business in High sec.
4. Promotes big alliances - Not the best for all pilots people should have freedom of choice but if they get War Dec lots more they will soon Alliance up.

Jokus Balim

Miner At Heart

Likes received: 20

#85 - 2012-06-04 11:53:22 UTC | Edited by: Jokus Balim

Natural CloneKiller wrote:

New War Dec changes = -1 from me.

1. Promotes small corps/Alliances getting War dec'ed loads.

Is the promotion of conflict a problem? And is that really happening? Because the costs to wardec a corporation increased bei a factor x25 (2m -> 50m).

Quote:

2. Promotes Defenders geting lots of free Ally's coz ppl just want free wars.

Is that a bad thing? More people potentially shooting at each other.

Quote:

3. Puts Mercs out of business in High sec.

The situation for mercs changed but did it worsen? There were decshields, it was easy to bail out by alliance hopping. Now, a lot of people hop on the ally bandwagon, but they don't commit to the wars as far as I've seen. They just wait for random stragglers at trade hubs.

If you want to make people do what you want, you still have to pay them.

Quote:

4. Promotes big alliances - Not the best for all pilots people should have freedom of choice but if they get War Dec lots more they will soon Alliance up.

Will they? Over 5000 targets for 400m ISK per week? I like the idea that large alliances of carebears populate highsec, so you can get them all with a single wardec.

Selissa Shadoe

Likes received: 106

#86 - 2012-06-04 20:00:49 UTC

I think there really should be something to disallow shooting of mining ships and industrials/freighters in a high-sec war-dec. I don't think it's right that those that are not in a PVP ship can be targetted. In civilized countries we have agreed upon rules of war to guard against military shooting unarmed civilians and non-combatants.

I know I'm looking for honor in a game like EVE, so I'm probably in for a long wait.

Until that change is made then the wardec changes suck.

"Whether suicide ganking or doing anything in eve, there are exorbitant amounts of people in the game and on the forums that are complete jerks." - Spikeflach

Jokus Balim

Miner At Heart

Likes received: 20

#87 - 2012-06-04 22:49:23 UTC

Selissa Shadoe wrote:

Shooting infrastructure isn't necessarily a war crime. Mining ships provide ore, which is the stuff to make all this funny combat-related thingies. Industrials haul that stuff. No one will scream "War crime! War crime!" if someone bombs a tank factory or an ammunition convoy Pirate

Ok, I can live with it, if you cannot shoot mining ships and industrials that have only non-war related stuff in hold: tourists, a damsel in distress, dairy products and so on Blink

Podding in the other hand... Roll

Alexandra Delarge

The Korova

Likes received: 103

#88 - 2012-06-05 16:34:39 UTC

Selissa Shadoe wrote:

Non combatants should leave and join an NPC corp. This will make them civilians and invulnerable to war decs.

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