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Are Exhumer's a dead ship line ?
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Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-06-02 16:19:35 UTC
Exhumers are only dead if your brain is dead. It is far too easy to avoid a suicide gank for all this hubbub about it. Noone has successfully ganked me this hulkageddon, although one person tried and failed.
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-06-02 16:22:31 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
El Loafy wrote:
I'm writing this to see what the General consensus is out there regarding the validity & usefullness of the exhumer & industrial barge Class ships with the ongoing suicide ganking in high sec ..

My Personall opinions are that, as it Stands, if CCP does not beef them up , or beef up the police response in high sec systems then they would be just as well removing these classes from the game .

My reasoned thought on the removal of these classes are that most industrialists can mine safer in a Battleship than a barge in High sec whilst having a sufficient enough tank to make it not worthwhile for Gankers . Whereas in the barge class hulls there are insufficient slots to do so So whats the point in the Class ?

Would like to hear other Reasoned approaches to why they should go or stay ..


Hulks are fine as is. They can tank enough to make ganking them unprofitable.


Here are some options you might try during this trying time.

1. Continue Mining like normal and Accept the losses
2. Continue Mining as normal but in a Covetor and Accept the losses
3. Mine in a Rokh, comfortably immune* to Suicide Ganks
4. Tank your Hulk and Accept a lower number of Losses from edge case profit based ganks.
5. Tank your Hulk with RR and be comfortable immune to Suicide Ganks
6. Mine in a Normally Fit Hulk but use a short range D-Scan to escape ganks
7. Set up safespots such that you can maintain a rough orbit in range of a roid by aligning to each BM in turn
8. Set up Hulks to Web each other, mine aligned to 1 SS at 7m/s (warpable speed) (can be done @ max yield)
9. Watch local for known gankers, accept the occasional gank from unknown ganks
10. Mine in Mission pockets
11. Mine in Grav Sites, occasionally scanning D-Scan
12. Tank your Hulk and have friends in BLAP AC Nados ready to shoot (one should kill a Cat before you die, failing the gank)
13. Tank your Hulk and have friends with ECM
14. Tank your Hulk and run 5x Med ECM drones and accept that you'll die if they fail
15. Mine in Lowsec (can be done solo in a quiet system)
16. Mine in Null (can be done solo in a quiet NPC sov system)
17. Mine in WH space

*all cases of immunity from Suicide Ganks assume profit-based ganks. Non-Profit based ganks are rare and are not something that can be negated by game mechanics changes besides eliminating ganks, thus can be ignored.

All of these options have advantages and disadvantages. All of them will work. Not all of them are perfect.

If ALL of these options do not work for you, please describe your very special situation, and I'll come up with a custom solution or call you names. You know, depending...

These are all great and valid ideas that will work, but to be honest I rather just come to the forum and cry. Can I do that instead of adapting? I kind of suck at Eve but I am supreme at shedding public tears.
Price Check Aisle3
#43 - 2012-06-02 16:25:46 UTC
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
These are all great and valid ideas that will work, but to be honest I rather just come to the forum and cry. Can I do that instead of adapting? I kind of suck at Eve but I am supreme at shedding public tears.

Sorry, ma'am, we're going to have to revoke your exhumer license at this time.
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-06-02 16:29:24 UTC
Are tanking ships a dead fitting line?

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Spikeflach
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-06-02 16:29:25 UTC
Captain Megadeath wrote:
Oh forgot the important bit...

El Loafy wrote:
I'm writing this to see what the General consensus is out there regarding the validity & usefullness of the exhumer & industrial barge Class ships with the ongoing suicide ganking in high sec ..

My Personall opinions are that, as it Stands, if CCP does not beef them up , or beef up the police response in high sec systems then they would be just as well removing these classes from the game .

My reasoned thought on the removal of these classes are that most industrialists can mine safer in a Battleship than a barge in High sec whilst having a sufficient enough tank to make it not worthwhile for Gankers . Whereas in the barge class hulls there are insufficient slots to do so So whats the point in the Class ?

Would like to hear other Reasoned approaches to why they should go or stay ..



The Hulk does not need to be beefed up, neither does concord need a buff. Concord recieved a buff a while back and now they have a response time of 15 secs in a 0.5 system. Of course this response time quickens as the security status increases.

A fully tanked hulk has roughly 35,448 EHP which rises to roughly 42,387 EHP if you have an Orca supporting you with a shield harmonizing ganglink. This means that the Gankers need to bring more than 7 destroyers to gank you* if you are in a 0.5 sec system. This number rises the higher the sec status the system you are mining in. So in other words, if you see more than 7 destroyers heading towards you on Dscan, get the feck outa dodge, Lol It should also be able to tank 2 Tornados as well I think lol**.

The problem is that some people have it in their head that the default loadout for the Hulk involves 2 MLU II, it really doesnt. You can fit these if you wish but you need to be able to suffer the consequences...



* Based upon a catalyst loadout of aprox 1,107.81 alpha
** Based upon a Tornado loadout of aprox 11,302 aplha


HOLY CRAP, how do you fit your tank hulks to recieve that much EHP!?
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2012-06-02 16:35:05 UTC
El Loafy wrote:
I'm writing this to see what the General consensus is out there regarding the validity & usefullness of the exhumer & industrial barge Class ships with the ongoing suicide ganking in high sec ..

My Personall opinions are that, as it Stands, if CCP does not beef them up , or beef up the police response in high sec systems then they would be just as well removing these classes from the game .

My reasoned thought on the removal of these classes are that most industrialists can mine safer in a Battleship than a barge in High sec whilst having a sufficient enough tank to make it not worthwhile for Gankers . Whereas in the barge class hulls there are insufficient slots to do so So whats the point in the Class ?

Would like to hear other Reasoned approaches to why they should go or stay ..


some are, yes. unless CCP does something about the machinaw it will continue to be a bad choice. go ahead fit a tank to it....

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2012-06-02 16:37:30 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:

The Hulk does not need to be beefed up, neither does concord need a buff. Concord recieved a buff a while back and now they have a response time of 15 secs in a 0.5 system. Of course this response time quickens as the security status increases.

A fully tanked hulk has roughly 35,448 EHP which rises to roughly 42,387 EHP if you have an Orca supporting you with a shield harmonizing ganglink. This means that the Gankers need to bring more than 7 destroyers to gank you* if you are in a 0.5 sec system. This number rises the higher the sec status the system you are mining in. So in other words, if you see more than 7 destroyers heading towards you on Dscan, get the feck outa dodge, Lol It should also be able to tank 2 Tornados as well I think lol**.


HOLY CRAP, how do you fit your tank hulks to recieve that much EHP!?




he told you.... by sacrificing mining squad gang boosting in favor of fleet gank links and by tanking your hulk to do away with any mining bonus module.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#48 - 2012-06-02 16:43:01 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:
HOLY CRAP, how do you fit your tank hulks to recieve that much EHP!?
There are a couple of ways…

The most I've managed to squeeze in there in EFT is with:

Damage Control II, Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I, Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction, 2× Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
2× Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Engineering EG-604

Overheat when something nasty shows up and you should sit at 37.2k EHP. Throw in a non-bonused fleet booster (eg an Orca) and get get 41.8k. Throw in a dedicated, bonused fleet boster and a siege mindlink, and you've got 45k+.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#49 - 2012-06-02 16:45:51 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:

The Hulk does not need to be beefed up, neither does concord need a buff. Concord recieved a buff a while back and now they have a response time of 15 secs in a 0.5 system. Of course this response time quickens as the security status increases.

A fully tanked hulk has roughly 35,448 EHP which rises to roughly 42,387 EHP if you have an Orca supporting you with a shield harmonizing ganglink. This means that the Gankers need to bring more than 7 destroyers to gank you* if you are in a 0.5 sec system. This number rises the higher the sec status the system you are mining in. So in other words, if you see more than 7 destroyers heading towards you on Dscan, get the feck outa dodge, Lol It should also be able to tank 2 Tornados as well I think lol**.


HOLY CRAP, how do you fit your tank hulks to recieve that much EHP!?




he told you.... by sacrificing mining squad gang boosting in favor of fleet gank links and by tanking your hulk to do away with any mining bonus module.


The Orca can fit more than one Gang link (in fact it can fit and run 3). Only 2 shield ones provide any buffer, and only one mining one provides any yield. Add that all together and...

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#50 - 2012-06-02 16:47:13 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
El Loafy wrote:
I'm writing this to see what the General consensus is out there regarding the validity & usefullness of the exhumer & industrial barge Class ships with the ongoing suicide ganking in high sec ..

My Personall opinions are that, as it Stands, if CCP does not beef them up , or beef up the police response in high sec systems then they would be just as well removing these classes from the game .

My reasoned thought on the removal of these classes are that most industrialists can mine safer in a Battleship than a barge in High sec whilst having a sufficient enough tank to make it not worthwhile for Gankers . Whereas in the barge class hulls there are insufficient slots to do so So whats the point in the Class ?

Would like to hear other Reasoned approaches to why they should go or stay ..


some are, yes. unless CCP does something about the machinaw it will continue to be a bad choice. go ahead fit a tank to it....


Then don't use it. Use a Hulk or a Covetor. They both mine ice just fine (though not as efficiently) and can be tanked against suicide ganks in different ways (EHP tank vs ISK tank).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Commit Sudoku
Perkone
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-06-02 16:48:34 UTC
if you mine in a hulk in high sec you should just mow lawns and use the money you get from that to buy a plex

hope this helps

guy on foreground: me posting guy in background: you
Captain Megadeath
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2012-06-02 16:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Megadeath
Spikeflach wrote:


HOLY CRAP, how do you fit your tank hulks to recieve that much EHP!?



[Hulk, tanked]

Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Medium FS-9 Regolith Shield Induction

Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

My hulk capsuleers have the following implants; BlinkLol

EE-603 (3% CPU)
SM-703 (3% shield capacity)
MC-803 (3% hull hp)
SP-903 (3% Shield recharge)
MX-1005 (3% ore yeild)

They also have all sub-cap engineering skills to V as well as Exhumers.
Armor Compensation skills are only @ IV at the minute, working on them to V.

EHP is 36,744 without Orca. 42,683EHP with Orca support.

Orca has a Shield Harmonizing ganglink as well as its Mining laser field enhacement and laser optimization links

Ore yeild is 3866.45m3/cycle - 25.60m3/s, strip range is 25.5 kms



Last numbers were out because I didn't update the implants lol
Spikeflach
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-06-02 16:58:11 UTC
Captain Megadeath wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:


HOLY CRAP, how do you fit your tank hulks to recieve that much EHP!?



[Hulk, tanked]

Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Medium FS-9 Regolith Shield Induction

Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

My hulk capsuleers have the following implants; BlinkLol

EE-603 (3% CPU)
SM-703 (3% shield capacity)
MC-803 (3% hull hp)
SP-903 (3% Shield recharge)
MX-1005 (3% ore yeild)

They also have all sub-cap engineering skills to V as well as Exhumers.
Armor Compensation skills are only @ IV at the minute, working on them to V.

EHP is 36,744 without Orca. 42,683EHP with Orca support.

Ore yeild is 3866.45m3/cycle - 25.60m3/s



Last numbers were out because I didn't update the implants lol


Ah, ok.

Just want to make it understood that most average miners will maybe reach somewhere between 28-31k EHP.

And am i to guess the orca is using the T2 shield harmonizing link?
Captain Megadeath
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2012-06-02 17:03:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Megadeath
Spikeflach wrote:


Ah, ok.

Just want to make it understood that most average miners will maybe reach somewhere between 28-31k EHP.

And am i to guess the orca is using the T2 shield harmonizing link?



Nope, T1. With T2 rises to 43,314EHP. Forgot to fit one, doh lol

And the Average miner having 28-31K... at least its far better than the 8k that cargo expanded hulks get.

And they should really think about getting their engineering based skills (shield compensation etc) up to V as every ship gains from them. Be it mining, missioning or pewpew.
Price Check Aisle3
#55 - 2012-06-02 17:12:17 UTC
Captain Megadeath wrote:
And the Average miner having 28-31K... at least its far better than the 8k that cargo expanded hulks get.

Even the token defense of a suitcase can be an effective deterrent. A quick test in pyfa with the All V guy shows 7,886ehp with two cargo expanders in the lows vs. 13,090ehp with an expander and a DCU II. If you get rid of that expander for something that doesn't hurt your hit points, you get 14,672ehp.

One module.
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Spikeflach
Perkone
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-06-02 17:19:43 UTC
Captain Megadeath wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:


Ah, ok.

Just want to make it understood that most average miners will maybe reach somewhere between 28-31k EHP.

And am i to guess the orca is using the T2 shield harmonizing link?



Nope, T1. With T2 rises to 43,314EHP. Forgot to fit one, doh lol

And the Average miner having 28-31K... at least its far better than the 8k that cargo expanded hulks get.

And they should really think about getting their engineering based skills (shield compensation etc) up to V as every ship gains from them. Be it mining, missioning or pewpew.


Phew, extra 10-15k EHP from implants and boosts would probably deter all but the most dedicated destroyer ganks.

Maybe if I ever decide to get into mining again, ill see about setting up implant clones like that.
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#57 - 2012-06-02 17:29:06 UTC
There are fits that can net you 29k EHP with 82/77/83/84% resists with no implants, you just need good defensive and core skills trained, which every pilot should have or be working towards anyway.

So close...
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#58 - 2012-06-02 17:32:12 UTC
[Hulk, The None Stupid Hulk]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Hornet EC-300 x5
Hobgoblin II x5

Can we stop talking about this now? Or will we have to go visit another 600 threads? Pretty sure almost all Gankers will right this off as too much to waste ships on. Fit this and let the gankers kill the other guys in shield boosting hulks.

Also if your wondering about seeing rocks, You get 5 tabs on your overviews, use them.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Captain Megadeath
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2012-06-02 17:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Megadeath
Barbara Nichole wrote:



he told you.... by sacrificing mining squad gang boosting in favor of fleet gank links and by tanking your hulk to do away with any mining bonus module.


No, you do NOT sacrifice squad boosting.

The only mining ganglink you need to drop is the harvester capacitor efficency, and that allows the Shield harmonizing link to be fitted. and the harvester cap link is useless anyways. You will be cap stable without it.

In fact you are increasing your squad boosting, not sacrificing it.





The rest of my post was just nulified by the previous post.... Hulk fit with T2 strips..... ShockedBig smile
wiskyjack
New Eden Mining Organisation
The Craftsmen
#60 - 2012-06-02 17:43:44 UTC
Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Exhumers don't belong in high-sec, but they're not a dead ship line.
if exhumers dont belong in high sec than all T2 ships should get the boot, going by your reasoning.

Which would lead to a mass of inexperienced t2 players. The only way to "ban" them would be to place a time limit on them. Once you leArn to use a hulk you would only have say six weeks of use in high sec before access to them is locked while in high sec