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Has Hatred gone too far CCP?
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Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2012-06-02 08:24:11 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Step 1: give hulk's much better buffer tanks


yes you can do this by fitting a Damage Control II, Micro Auxiliary Power Core II, Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction, two Adaptive Invulnerability Field IIs, an EM or thermic hardener and two Medium Core Defense Field Extender Is


How many T1 fit Catalyst's does it take to destroy that?


Enough to deter an opportunistic gank? Most certainly enough to be unprofitable.


Unprofitable? The additional 2-3 more T1 fit Catalysts somehow cost 50 million ISK each or something? That is one hell of a stacking penalty!


Tell me more about suicide ganking a Hulk netting you 150M ISK

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
KanashiiKami
#62 - 2012-06-02 08:24:30 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Reina Supremus wrote:
Are you sure?

It's simply that no one reports them because only the elite of EvE utilizes them. The elite isn't going to rat itself out no more than they wanted Titan nerfs.


So your accusation about botting JFs (and only the ~elite~ utilize them? what?) is pure speculation

I move that your post was written by a bot and that you're a posting bot, this is pure speculation


what is real is

the aim of mitani is to make gameplay harder for us, and ultimately to see us cry.

if miners mine ore to buy plex, what is the diff with goons farming TEC moon for plex? both are "free" isk resources from CCP. players reserve the right to farm them in any way they like in the gameplay.

of course, if any1 has noticed, there hasnt been alot of wardec on goons now that ccp changed the war mechanics ... i just hope every other alliance will just blob out the entire OTEC network.

WUT ???
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#63 - 2012-06-02 08:25:33 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
So they are not being payed 10m ISK per Hulk anymore? Pretty sure you can buy and fit at least ten Catalysts per Hulk easily. So if the combined suicide ships cost less than 10 million ISK, suicide ganking a Hulk will always be profitable.


The only person who gets the 10mil isk for the Hulk is the person who lands the killing blow, everyone else gets squat. Bringing more people just cuts into already meager profits.


Bringing more ships means you can do more DPS for the same ISK that it takes to fit a Catalyst with T2 blasters and DPS mods.

So the 10M reward split between the group will actually be more profitable than one pilot solo-ganking with a 12M ISK T2 fit catalyst. Fitting modules to a ship worth more than the ship itself? If they were mission-runners you'd be laughing at them in public.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#64 - 2012-06-02 08:26:29 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:

Tell me more about suicide ganking a Hulk netting you 150M ISK

:faction fits:

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#65 - 2012-06-02 08:28:32 UTC
KanashiiKami wrote:
i just hope every other alliance will just blob out the entire OTEC network.

Someone please inform this man of how much wars matter for 0.0 alliances, or suicide gankers.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-06-02 08:30:27 UTC
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13520098

Wow he got a total drop of 9 million ISK in loot yes this totally pays for 5 Catalysts to kill a hulk with an actual tank rather than two EM hardeners which I hear are useful against blasters

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-06-02 08:32:53 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Bringing more ships means you can do more DPS for the same ISK that it takes to fit a Catalyst with T2 blasters and DPS mods.

So the 10M reward split between the group will actually be more profitable than one pilot solo-ganking with a 12M ISK T2 fit catalyst. Fitting modules to a ship worth more than the ship itself? If they were mission-runners you'd be laughing at them in public.


More ships means more people (unless you're multiboxing). Why would anyone even want to gang up on a well tanked Hulk that'd pay out exactly the same as a shitfit one? I guess if they were really bored, or speficially wanted that pilot dead, then yeah, but it's certainly not going to happen for any reason beyond that.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Ayame Tao
#68 - 2012-06-02 08:35:07 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Ludi Burek wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:


Terms_of_Service




Rule number 1 is particularly interesting. Lol

Oh wait, you weren't referring to that one? Roll

Actually out of all the ones I listed, these are more specific to the current issue:

3 You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies

4 You may not use “role-playing” as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy.

16 You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.

29 You will not encourage others to break these rules or any rules set forth in relation to EVE Online’s game service or web site.


Sorry... I support miners, but I'm sick of whiners trying to use serious real world law to govern their butthurt in internet spaceships.

Point 3 - anti-ethnic, anti-gay etc are real world crimes. Understand to what this refers before taking it out of context. I personally find it offensive that people would try to equate losing a hulk in a PvP spaceship game to having your head kicked in for your beliefs. Get an effing grip.

Point 4 - See above - it is not okay to 'role play' ****, hatred (in its legally defined criminal context) etc and say 'I'm in character' Character is not an excuse. Being a Yaaar Pirate in a spaceship game desinged primarily to encourage people to shoot each other and loot the rapidly cooling corpses is not the same.

Point 16 - this relates to hacking, DOS, intentional exploiting of lag or other external factors that would make the game or forum or a chat channel unavailable. Getting killed in A SPACESHIP PVP GAME DOES NOT EFFING COUNT.

Point 29 - no rules have been broken. Jog on...


Enough already. Yeah, I'm mad. I mine every day and I am now training up a ganking alt myself because I'm so sick of the whining.

This is EVE. You Will Lose Ships. Get over it.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-06-02 08:41:52 UTC
Denidil wrote:
Step 1: give hulk's much better buffer tanks
Step 2: collect goon tears
Step 3: profit


a better tanked hulk [in terms buffer] ruins a gankbears day... but can still be blown up in more legitimate warfare, and can still be taken out of pimped out with shiny mods or has a hold full of valuables.

suicide ganks are a legitimate tactic, that is being abused to death.


You have to compromise. You want a better buffer tank? You have to have your yield cut. About 50% sounds reasonable.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Jie Jue
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-06-02 08:44:22 UTC
OP, glad you have a place to vent and get it off your chest, too bad that not ONE person who reads or comments on this is going to change their way of interacting in EvE or on the boards....


___________________________________________
Life is a Cabaret my friends.....
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-06-02 10:24:52 UTC
That fit (with a therm amp) tanks at least 5 t1 catalysts (32k ehp against Void). That's in 0.5, much more in higher sec systems.
Use ECM-drones and you can tank an additional catalyst. Overheat your hardeners and you have 35.8k ehp.

Yes, 5 Catalysts are cheaper than a Hulk. Fitting 5 t1 Catalysts can even be paid with t2 strips from a Hulk.
No, 5 cheap ships taking out a single mining barge is how it should be, those 5 catalyst could suicide a standard pvp fit Vagabond that's afking through space as well.
Numbers are a more important balancing factor than cost.
InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-06-02 11:39:46 UTC
Reina Supremus wrote:
Miners mad at gankers.
We don't rid the world of them because the EFFECT of their destruction does not generate a mathematically stable source of Tech income.


I thought it was more because you CAN'T rid the world of them. My mistake. Thank you for your mercy on us.

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2012-06-02 11:41:36 UTC
Denidil wrote:
Step 1: give hulk's much better buffer tanks
Step 2: collect goon tears
Step 3: profit


a better tanked hulk [in terms buffer] ruins a gankbears day... but can still be blown up in more legitimate warfare, and can still be taken out of pimped out with shiny mods or has a hold full of valuables.

suicide ganks are a legitimate tactic, that is being abused to death.


The hulk already have base defences that puts it in the same class as heavy assault ships. Perhaps if you acctually fit a tank it would tank better.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#74 - 2012-06-02 12:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Any one of these could be used.

1 You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.

2 You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)

3 You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies

4 You may not use “role-playing” as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy.

16 You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.

17 You may not engage in any activity that increases the difficulty and/or expense of CCP in maintaining the EVE Online client, server, web site or other services for the benefit and enjoyment of all its users.

23 You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website.

29 You will not encourage others to break these rules or any rules set forth in relation to EVE Online’s game service or web site.
Ok, let's see.

§1 does not apply because no-one is being abused, harassed, or threatened.
§2 does not apply because the “genocide campaign” (I presume you're referring to HG∞ here) is about blowing ships up, and has nothing to do with any particular use of language.
§3 does not apply because it's about blowing ships up, not about various forms of hate-mongering.
§4 would apply if any rules are actually broken, which remains to be seen.
§16 does not apply because the interference is done in accordance with the game's rules.
§17 does not apply because playing the game doesn't increase the maintenance needs.
§23 does not apply because no exploits or bugs are being used.
§29 would apply if any rules are actually broken, which remains to be seen.

…oh wait, that's the end of the list, which means we can rule out the conditional paragraphs 4 and 29 as well. Some of the things listed (in particular §2 and §3) might be applicable to some of the responses that have come out of the mining camp, though.
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#75 - 2012-06-02 12:39:08 UTC
Reina Supremus wrote:

I'm not going to place blame on the miners for this hate-fest because you guys are the ones that zealously promoted the hate to begin with.


It's utterly idiotic is it not ?

I showed a few poastings from here to my old 'shrink' when I ran into him. These people are quite 'not well'.

***
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2012-06-02 12:46:06 UTC
So, I hear posts on an internet forum give an accurate insight into someone's psyche.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#77 - 2012-06-02 12:46:09 UTC
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:
Reina Supremus wrote:

I'm not going to place blame on the miners for this hate-fest because you guys are the ones that zealously promoted the hate to begin with.


It's utterly idiotic is it not ?

I showed a few poastings from here to my old 'shrink' when I ran into him. These people are quite 'not well'.

says the guy consulting his personal therapist about things someone said on the internet
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#78 - 2012-06-02 12:51:35 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:
I showed a few poastings from here to my old 'shrink' when I ran into him. These people are quite 'not well'.
says the guy consulting his personal therapist about things someone said on the internet
Lord Zim wrote:
So, I hear posts on an internet forum give an accurate insight into someone's psyche.
Sometimes, you really have to wonder, though. Straight
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#79 - 2012-06-02 12:53:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Talon SilverHawk
Tippia wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Any one of these could be used.

1 You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.

2 You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)

3 You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies

4 You may not use “role-playing” as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy.

16 You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.

17 You may not engage in any activity that increases the difficulty and/or expense of CCP in maintaining the EVE Online client, server, web site or other services for the benefit and enjoyment of all its users.

23 You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website.

29 You will not encourage others to break these rules or any rules set forth in relation to EVE Online’s game service or web site.
Ok, let's see.

§1 does not apply because no-one is being abused, harassed, or threatened.
§2 does not apply because the “genocide campaign” (I presume you're referring to HG∞ here) is about blowing ships up, and has nothing to do with any particular use of language.
§3 does not apply because it's about blowing ships up, not about various forms of hate-mongering.
§4 would apply if any rules are actually broken, which remains to be seen.
§16 does not apply because the interference is done in accordance with the game's rules.
§17 does not apply because playing the game doesn't increase the maintenance needs.
§23 does not apply because no exploits or bugs are being used.
§29 would apply if any rules are actually broken, which remains to be seen.

…oh wait, that's the end of the list, which means we can rule out the conditional paragraphs 4 and 29 as well. Some of the things listed (in particular §2 and §3) might be applicable to some of the responses that have come out of the mining camp, though.


Ok Tippia, what's missing is the rule about not being an as*hole to fellow gamers and generally playing the game not for what it is but to get kicks out of causing misery to others.

Lets remember the motto "we don't want to ruin the game just your game" takes a certain type of person to subscribe to that with pride. Only thing is in following it they are ruining a part of the game.

Most hi secers, in my opinion ( I could be wrong) don't want to see it completely safe, I don't, but they would like to see a bit more balance.

I think the another problem is null sec is boring for some big alliance players as there isn't anyone to fight on that scale.

Another issue is the numbers that are now suicide ganking in hi sec, it used to be the province of a smaller group of players, now everyone and there mother is getting into it, it's almost an epidemic.

My thoughts

Tal
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#80 - 2012-06-02 12:53:20 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13520098

Wow he got a total drop of 9 million ISK in loot yes this totally pays for 5 Catalysts to kill a hulk with an actual tank rather than two EM hardeners which I hear are useful against blasters


No buffer mods and all hardeners....pretty sure there's a rather steep curve the closer you get to 100% resists on shields the harder additional mods are stack penalized.

So close...