EVE New Citizens Q&A

Well ... the first thing you're going to hear from mission runners - is that running more missions is more profitable than mining, especially with a new character.


Now - if you still want to mine with this character ...


1) There isn't really any difference between profitability in mining belts vs. mining mission space. The difference - is that mining in mission space is safer. Anyone can just cruise the belts, spot a miner and go over to harass them but - fewer people (more now than before) take the trouble to scan people down in mission space.

2) There is a problem with mining mission space in systems that have Level IV agents though - and that problem is Ninja Salvagers. Ninja's make their living scanning down Level IV mission runners then salvaging their wrecks. They pretty much only frequent systems with Level IV agents though as that is where the best salvage is. If you are running Level IV missions - then you have a much better chance of being scanned down - and having someone come over to mess with you once they know where you are. Since the removal of quality from agents this has reduced to some extent (as I understand it ) the importance of Mission Hubs - but that may be bad for you if you are trying to operate with an Level IV Agent in a more remote system. Whereas before - the Ninja's may have been drawn to the mission hubs - now they may be out there where you are. Essentially, I would expect them, like any predator, to follow their game. They were concentrated in the Mission Hubs before because that's where the Level IV Mission Runners were. How much they've dispersed since then I couldn't say - but - what matters is - what are they like in YOUR area. A simple way to determine this would be to bring up your directional scanner - and scan for combat scanning probes. Those are the probes the ninja's will be using (of various types) to look for you. If you've been running your missions without visits from Ninja's - then you probably won't get them while mining later on.

3) Now, as to team mining - what you can do - is to have the Mission Runner run his mission, then bring the miner in to start mining - if there are any asteroids. Watch out as some systems are booby trapped and your miner will begin taking damage when he starts to mine if they are. Make sure you have bookmarked your wrecks if you are going to salvage them before leaving with the mission runner and turning the mission in. As long as someone is in the Mission Space - it will not go away after the mission is turned in - but - if everyone leaves (for whatever reason ... such as computer crashes) the Mission Space and all it's Asteroids will go away. All the rooms will remain as long as someone is in any of them.

4) Once the miner is beginning to mine into a jet can, you can send the mission runner off to turn in the mission and fetch his salvager. Alternately - you could put the miner in a salvager and have them both salvage wrecks before you begin mining. Wrecks last 2 hours - asteroids last until down time - if you've completed the mission.

5) Once the mission runner has completed salvaging the wrecks (assuming the miner is mining) the mission runner can then go back and get an industrial and begin hauling for the miner.

6) Asteroids are not as concentrated in Mission Space as they are in the belts - if there's a downside to mining in mission space - this is it. However - because it is safer if you are in a quiet system where no one is scanning people down - you can afford to leave jet can's laying about full of ore. Here - the miner moves to an area from which he can access multiple asteroids and mines these out putting them into jet cans. He can label the jet cans with the time so that he knows how long he has before they go away. As with wrecks - jet cans last 2 hours. Once a miner has exhausted the asteroids in reach of his lasers at one point in the field - he can create a new jet can, move the ore from the jet can he was using into it - and then move along to another vantage point from which to begin mining another group of asteroids.

7) The hauler, can mount a tractor beam on their industrial to pull in the jet cans the miner has finished using. Since, with the mission space still intact - the warp in point will still be the beacon even if the mission has been turned in, the miner will have to travel from the beacon to each jet can to fetch it's contents. The tractor beam will cut down on that.

8) The other thing the miner can do - is to put either a salvager or miner of his own on the industrial. The miner he mounts can add a little to the speed of taking the ore. However, if you are mining in a .8 system or lower - you will be visited by belt rats ... just like the rats in that systems Asteroid Belts. The Miner's drones can kill them - then the Mission Runner can tractor the wrecks to his industrial and salvage them.

9) The industrial should be fit with a 10MN AB as you will probably need to move around the belt some and the utility of your extra speed will out weigh that of having a better tank - as you would want in hauling system to system. Other than that - you can put Cargo Hold Expander II's and Cargo rigs on the Industrial to increase it's load. Iteron V's haul the most, with Mammoth's next. Bestowers are third and Badger II's last of the T1 industrials. Training your mission runner to use a basic industrial is trivial - but - fully maxing out the industrials capability will take more time. Your call on that.


Now ... as I indicated above - mining any belts you might have in your Level IV missions - is not necessarily going to get you more money than just running another mission, especially with just one miner and one hauler.

But - mining and mission running will give you something different to do instead of just doing one thing all the time.



.

So I guess CCP Failed in that as ... at least that was my understanding of the reason for the change.

.

Mining missions are just like combat missions for isk rewards

You can earn more isks from actual mining, as it can be much faster than those 0-so-slow mining missions.
I mean actual mining of rocks within systems, rather than those you find in missions (which tend to be basic ore only)

If you mean giving out security missions - yeah, I guess so.

If you mean the security status of the system they're in ... yeah that could be.



For Mission Runners who don't mind moving some dozen jumps or so to set up camp in an agents station while they run his missions - the mission consolidation is a benefit as you only get the security mission most people want. For someone who is operating out of a specific base though, for such purposes as industrial activity - where as before - you could just run missions for whatever agents you had and get some of the more lucrative security missions. Now ... if you want to stay in the area you're basing your industrial operations out of - you're stuck with nothing else but what ever kinds of missions those bases agents specialize in. I.E. - if you're operating out of a base that only has mining or distribution agents - and you want to stay near that base because of the industrial work you chose that station for - then your stuck with mining and courier missions.



As to mission space ore ... it varies. Sadly - it varies a lot less now since they pulled the rare ores out of high sec missions in yet another attempt to force people to do what they want them to do (sand box my ass ...) which is go down to low sec and get blown up.

But yes, most of the ore in missions is Veldspar and Scordite.

But if you're mining for commercial purposes, Veldspar is always right up there near the top of most profitable ores to mine. Trit itself may not get the same prices that some of the other minerals do - but if you look at the time it takes to mine Veldspar you can pull in more in the same amount of time than you might get of some other ore.

If you need other ores though, yes, you may need to mine those in belts.



Another factor in all this is the nature of your mining op. If you've got just two or three people the difficulty of staying secure in the belts is a lot less than if you have a larger op with more miners who are leaving jet cans laying about. If you have a hi ratio of miners to haulers ... there are going to be more jet can's sitting about with ore in them to be flipped. If you have a low ratio of miners to haulers you can mine such that there is never anything in the jet can but a bookmark to keep it open for any longer than it takes the hauler to snatch the ore into his hold. One to one - you can mine fairly safely in even a moderately busy system if you pay attention and know what you're doing.

Still another factor - is how many actual people you have as opposed to characters. If you're trying to manage multiple characters it's easier to do in relative safely in a more secure environment. Mining is the easiest way to use multiple accounts but if you get attacked ... you're looking at losing more ships than you would if you just had one ship per player.


.

Level 4 missions are going to earn you more than Mining Veldspar. Ore in mission space is pretty rare as it is, and most of it is Veldspar. Couple this with the time it takes you to get from gate to rock, or rock to rock, and you would make more ISK just mining in the asteroid belt. If you're asking this question because you want to earn more ISK, consider making that alt account into a mission runner. Dual box missions. You'll be earning more per character, per hour doing that than you will mining on one and mission running on another. Does your "mining alt" even earn himself the value of a PLEX per month?

If you're so carebear you can't stand the possibility of even seeing another person in space, then mining mission space is a good aim. For anything else, it is terrible.

Even considering the above, if I see a miner + can on scan when I enter a system (and I am in such a mood) then I will find it. The fact it is in mission space is of no giant consequence. If griefing is the aim of the game, then tipping 2 hours worth of ore cans is a much (much!) bigger gain than flipping the belt miner with 1 scordite in his can to keep it open, hence the incentive to find it.

Yeah - it is mostly veldspar and you can find more and better ore in the belts but the amount of time you have to spend mining and the equipment you have to use make a difference as well.

Two Hulks and an Orca is a high end mining solution that the average new player miners are not going to have.

If they're using Retrievers and Industrials ... it's going to take them longer to mine out a smaller mission space belt and the greater amount of ore in an normal belt might not matter.

When I started playing - I'd mine for 5 to 8 hours at a time and - using 3 Retrievers and a Bestower - clear entire belts in .7 systems. The only question was - how many belts would I clear in a day.

Now ... I've got a lot better stuff - including a Hulk and an Orca along with a bunch of Covetors ... but don't have the time to spend a fraction of what I used to mining. So the extra ore in a belt is meaningless. Also - I can get pulled away from the game at any moment - and have to leave my ships to their fate. So ... being in a safer situation is better for me.

I'd imagine it would be safer also for people who are drunk ... but then my doctor won't let me drink alcohol any more (it interacts badly with one of my medications) so that's not something I have to worry about ...

For newer players ... who haven't experienced mining in Lo Sec and learning to watch out for themselves ... safer counts for a lot even in high sec.

If they're solo mining out of a cruiser or a frigate ... they can jet can mine in much more safety in Mission Space.



My advice in the New Citizens Forum tends to be more conservative, and leans more toward - how to not get blown up - than how to make the most money in the least amount of time. There are plenty of other people advising new people to act like veterans - take risks like veterans and endure ship losses like veterans.

Sadly, there's a tendency amongst aggressive young people playing computer games to denigrate anyone not as brave - or stupid - as they are. Having a voice that points out that it's not just a question of how big your balls are - but as much one of how smart you are doesn't hurt.

There is a risk vs. reward in all this - but each of us needs to make the decision on how much risk we are willing to take for the various rewards available.

I'm not worried about the high risk takers - they aren't going to listen to me anyway. But - for someone who is less desirous of being blown up ... they might benefit from a more conservative, safer set of advice.

As time goes by - and a new player stops being a new player - they may well be much more interested in taking greater risks - and they'll have the experience with which to make that judgement.

It's good to have every one voicing their opinions though - then everybody can see what the options are and make up their own minds as to what they would prefer to do.


There's certainly nothing wrong with anything you said - it just may be that a safer option is more important to some people than others, whether it's me who might get called away from the game at any second ... or some solo miner trying to fill a jet can with his Bantam before he gets his Badger to empty it - without having his ore stolen from right under his nose.

*shrug*

.

I have a calculator that can help you find out what rocks make the most isk per hour without you having to make a spread sheet. See the link in the signature. You can choose what prices (region of space, buy orders or sell order) to base your calculations off of. I do assume perfect refining so it will show you more yield than you would get but the ranking of best to worst should still apply. And yes I don't think mining in missions is worth it anymore... now that rock spawn daily instead of 2 times a week in belts.