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Greifers vs CCP, Hulkageddon is winning. Time for CCP to code changes.
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Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
#201 - 2012-05-31 12:56:51 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Koreli Stelios wrote:
Nooblet prattle


And the nooblet bleats like the sheep we expect them to be.

So yeah....moving on.


xD You gunu call any one sheep? You with your Cookie Mold ship fit linked to you in some chat or found on some third party site.

Oh and don't tell me its not, can tell just by the way you talk it is. You wouldn't have the first clue about tactics, let alone understand even the most basic of frigs can be useful past the first few days of play if you know how to work in a team.

Nope you'll have the same old ship with the same old fit, that is the greatest indication of stagnant things are becoming.
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
#202 - 2012-05-31 13:01:33 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Yeah. It's always struck me as a bit weird how they shoot ships, but not pods, but I believe that's because CCP didn't want people to get podded by surprise. But I wouldn't be surprised if CCP decides that the ganking problem has become so prevalent now that they have to change that part of the mechanics.

Honestly, I'm not seeing what all the rage is, all you have to do is really think of something simple like this, and propose that to CCP.


Yea no this is a good point. Eve if it had to just be that Conc will pod any player it has to get involved with. xD Well just don't get involved with Concord!

But no like you say surely a certain negative standing could allow it and allow other players to do it with no Concord retribution. Because of course just allow Concord pure rights to pod would probably lead to people finding ways to get some one to attack them just to get them Conced.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#203 - 2012-05-31 13:17:02 UTC
Obviously it wouldn't be based on the "I just ganked someone, concord will now shoot my ship" code, that would be ludicrous. No, it would have to just be an extension of the current system where you get shot at by faction police if you're in a ship below a certain security level, and by concord below another level (I think -2.5 and -5 respectively? I dunno), only extended to take the pod as well.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lady Flute
Ilmarinen Group
#204 - 2012-05-31 14:05:03 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
No PVP Zones my ass.... EVE Online has been in operation for a very long time.... anyone who hints at its death..needs head examined.


Go gank new players in the starter systems, see what happens to you. Blink
Lady Flute
Ilmarinen Group
#205 - 2012-05-31 14:06:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Flute
Lord Zim wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the only change CCP really needs to do, is to make it so pods aren't treated specially. I.e. a -10 pod would get popped just like he would in a ship.

vOv


That would be a very welcome change. Biggest problem is that CONCORD protect reds in pods, that should be changed.
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#206 - 2012-05-31 16:09:22 UTC
Lady Flute wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the only change CCP really needs to do, is to make it so pods aren't treated specially. I.e. a -10 pod would get popped just like he would in a ship.

vOv


That would be a very welcome change. Biggest problem is that CONCORD protect reds in pods, that should be changed.


See -10 in pod, grab SeBo'ed Interceptor, destroy pod, scoop corpse, rinse, repeat.

There's your solution.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Jones Bones
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#207 - 2012-05-31 18:27:37 UTC
I'm not going to read all the tears, but you miners realize you are probably safer in null sec right? And you get to mine those ABC ores that will make you ten times as rich!
Alderon Mizuchi
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#208 - 2012-05-31 18:31:57 UTC
Good god, it's not hard to avoid ganks like this.

Stop mining in a system with hundreds of people in it. Go find a quiet highsec system. Watch local. See someone new pop in? Check sec status, and either dock up or go to a new system if it's in the negative. Don't want to do that? At least be aligned and ready to warp the second a new ship pops up on grid. DScan until you know they aren't there to gank to check for probes. Too much work? Welcome to the same **** everyone else with a ship they don't want to lose has to do when they undock in it.

Stop trying to have the game changed to fit your needs when all you need to do is ****ing pay attention.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#209 - 2012-06-01 03:25:49 UTC
Lady Flute wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the only change CCP really needs to do, is to make it so pods aren't treated specially. I.e. a -10 pod would get popped just like he would in a ship.

vOv


That would be a very welcome change. Biggest problem is that CONCORD protect reds in pods, that should be changed.


No, you can shoot pods below -5.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Spikeflach
Perkone
Caldari State
#210 - 2012-06-01 03:47:48 UTC
Jones Bones wrote:
I'm not going to read all the tears, but you miners realize you are probably safer in null sec right? And you get to mine those ABC ores that will make you ten times as rich!


Been in my share of nullsec alliances, they are either stuck up jerks, CTA mongers, Corp/alliance thiefs, paranoid freaks, power hungry dictators, or just simply boring.

Many people do truthfully dislike having to kiss up to much of the current jumble of jerks.
Lady Flute
Ilmarinen Group
#211 - 2012-06-01 05:32:14 UTC
Alderon Mizuchi wrote:
Good god, it's not hard to avoid ganks like this.

Stop mining in a system with hundreds of people in it. Go find a quiet highsec system. Watch local. See someone new pop in? Check sec status, and either dock up or go to a new system if it's in the negative. Don't want to do that? At least be aligned and ready to warp the second a new ship pops up on grid. DScan until you know they aren't there to gank to check for probes. Too much work? Welcome to the same **** everyone else with a ship they don't want to lose has to do when they undock in it.

Stop trying to have the game changed to fit your needs when all you need to do is ****ing pay attention.


Why are you so insistant on trying to blame miners? My friend lost her first (and only, ever) covetor in a quiet system, while her husband watched local, D sacnned, both aligned, and flew with her for safety. You seem to have forgotten that in Highsec you don't get automatic blue + (or not) for everyone in system. You only get that in null. People who are paying attention and doing all you suggested lose mining ships every day, because the systems are simply weak and/or broken. Why does negative security status not automatically tag a pilot a warning colour in Highsec local? That is part of why null is safer, because the us/them dichotomy actually works, and effectively tags all treats. But new & casual players can't do anything in null, if you take them there, they will likely quit the game.

As for being able to pod at -5, good luck with that. Unless suicide ganking miners is changed to put you to -5, then gankers will kill a ton of people, and use an alt to collect their own bounty if it ever gets high enough to be in risk of getting podded. Remember that the bounty system is meant to protect people like miners, by allowing them to hire PvP players to kill thier foes. And we all know that system is horribly broken.

A new thought that came into my head : kill rights should be able to be made into an item, and sold. So that the miners really can give the contract to kill someone. The right should also work as a "key" to activate Locator Services on the target in any bounty office. After all, Concord and the Empires know where these people are.
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#212 - 2012-06-01 13:35:55 UTC
You can change and costomise your overlay - and I've made mine give people with negative sec status a coloured background. That helps me in lo-sec.

The problem with industrialists getting our own back on suicide gankers is. . . Regardless of any kill rights / bounties / transferable kill rights, bounty hunting, crime and punishment, other game mechanics yet to be invented. . . etc, etc. . . Is the fact that suicide gankers will almost certainly be using a disposable alt. The pilot who ganks you today will be biomass this time next month if it is easier for them to continue ganking with a new character. Without any access to the "Main" account, the thing that the player has invested time into, suicide ganking is without long term consequence for those who participate. There really isn't anything stopping them from running an entirely different paid account for being naughty on!

There is a difference between people playing as pirates long term, and people who create a new account for the purposes of giefing for a couple of weeks. The long term pirate has made a choice and likes that way to play and game mechanics like Sec-Status affect them. The suicide ganker may well be just having a laugh with a disposable account - and certainly would dispose of it if things were changed to make it harder for that character to continue.
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2012-06-01 18:05:53 UTC
Jones Bones wrote:
I'm not going to read all the tears, but you miners realize you are probably safer in null sec right? And you get to mine those ABC ores that will make you ten times as rich!

yup .. you'd just be dead several times over getting there...
Raging YarrX
Coven Of Witches
C0VEN
#214 - 2012-06-01 20:46:18 UTC
Nevryn Takis wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
I'm not going to read all the tears, but you miners realize you are probably safer in null sec right? And you get to mine those ABC ores that will make you ten times as rich!

yup .. you'd just be dead several times over getting there...


obviously doesnt know jack **** about the game. go join a mining alliance they will move your **** there for you. otherwise head to npc nullsec, pick a ****** moon and stick your pos there. get a rorq or jump freighter. all you need is patience. mannn you guys wanna make isk the easy way period. eve is dangerous. you've been provided all the tools to keep yourself safe, do it. clearly your friend and husband and village wasnt paying attention to local properly enough. learn the game. learn from your mistakes. lose a ship, just get back missioning and mining to get another. isnt that hard. if you're gonna quit after losing a ship then gtfo no one wants you. this game isnt for the weak. go play wow or something if you dont want to lose your hardearned ****.
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2012-06-01 21:45:52 UTC
Raging YarrX wrote:
Nevryn Takis wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
I'm not going to read all the tears, but you miners realize you are probably safer in null sec right? And you get to mine those ABC ores that will make you ten times as rich!

yup .. you'd just be dead several times over getting there...


obviously doesnt know jack **** about the game. go join a mining alliance they will move your **** there for you. otherwise head to npc nullsec, pick a ****** moon and stick your pos there. get a rorq or jump freighter. all you need is patience. mannn you guys wanna make isk the easy way period. eve is dangerous. you've been provided all the tools to keep yourself safe, do it. clearly your friend and husband and village wasnt paying attention to local properly enough. learn the game. learn from your mistakes. lose a ship, just get back missioning and mining to get another. isnt that hard. if you're gonna quit after losing a ship then gtfo no one wants you. this game isnt for the weak. go play wow or something if you dont want to lose your hardearned ****.

Yeah I do ... join friggin huge alliance ====== you will be on at this time... you will participate in these mining missions ... you will get jack **** ...oh and a huge monthly bill for being part of the alliance
The alternative you're now red and dead ..
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#216 - 2012-06-01 21:57:03 UTC
Nevryn Takis wrote:
Raging YarrX wrote:
Nevryn Takis wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
I'm not going to read all the tears, but you miners realize you are probably safer in null sec right? And you get to mine those ABC ores that will make you ten times as rich!

yup .. you'd just be dead several times over getting there...


obviously doesnt know jack **** about the game. go join a mining alliance they will move your **** there for you. otherwise head to npc nullsec, pick a ****** moon and stick your pos there. get a rorq or jump freighter. all you need is patience. mannn you guys wanna make isk the easy way period. eve is dangerous. you've been provided all the tools to keep yourself safe, do it. clearly your friend and husband and village wasnt paying attention to local properly enough. learn the game. learn from your mistakes. lose a ship, just get back missioning and mining to get another. isnt that hard. if you're gonna quit after losing a ship then gtfo no one wants you. this game isnt for the weak. go play wow or something if you dont want to lose your hardearned ****.

Yeah I do ... join friggin huge alliance ====== you will be on at this time... you will participate in these mining missions ... you will get jack **** ...oh and a huge monthly bill for being part of the alliance
The alternative you're now red and dead ..


Hi. I'm part of a nullsec alliance that does mining ops and things. Not one part of what you just said about them is true in any way, shape or form. try an alliance that isn't led by a mouthbreather and you might like it more Big smile
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2012-06-01 22:01:14 UTC
Nevryn Takis wrote:
Yeah I do ... join friggin huge alliance ====== you will be on at this time... you will participate in these mining missions ... you will get jack **** ...oh and a huge monthly bill for being part of the alliance
The alternative you're now red and dead ..

Man. You've seriously chosen the wrong alliances to join, haven't you? I haven't had to do any of that all the years I've been in nullsec. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Vicata Heth
Sensible People
Sigma Grindset
#218 - 2012-06-01 23:54:27 UTC
Lady Lupiah wrote:
Just before downtime, a classic EVE moment unfolded, in High Sec.

A player doing a ~mining mission~ had their ore stolen by a player, who gave it back in another can. A yellow can. They then decloaked their Tengu and obliterated the new player, much to the latter's total dismay.

My friends, the time has come. Enough. There are many wolves in EVE, but they are now mocking CCP by overrunning the young sheep, such is their boredom. Null-sec, low-sec, and wormholes are not enough. They insist on killing new players and social orientated players for nothing more than "the payment in tears".

This is how EVE works. These "wolves" as you call them, are actually teaching new players about how the EVE world works.
Lady Lupiah wrote:

Basic concepts


  • EVE is a business.
  • Sucessful in-game players who pay for their accounts with PLEX do not pay for EVE. Players who buy PLEX with real money do.

    • True by technicality, but your general idea is flawed. Every plex (at least as far as I'm aware) in EVE was purchased by someone at some point. Therefore every player's playing time was paid for. Some players are willing to pay cash for another player's playing time, in exchange for ISK. This benefits both players involved, and CCP
    Lady Lupiah wrote:

  • CCP spent a lot of marketing effort to get me to return to the game and play.
  • CCP's efforts are being undermined by people in-game deliberately trying to make people like me quit.

    • We don't want you to quit. If you quit then we can't harvest your tears any more.
    Lady Lupiah wrote:

  • The different zones of space are intended to have a risk-reward axis, from safer from pvp but poor mission reward/low quality minerals to high risk / high rewards.
  • That design has been totally undermined by new ships, modules and rigs over the years: the gap between rich vet and poor new player is a problem.

    • Not really. I'm not a vet by any means. I started playing sometime around 2008. I still manage to enjoy the game perfectly fine. If I wanted to create some major nullsec sov holding alliance that produced trillions of ISK per day, I have the tools at my disposal to do so, just like every other player. I will agree that the veteran holds the advantage in some ways, such as some vets having t2 BPOs that are no longer being created. But on the large scheme of things this isn't a major issue, as it doesn't detract from someone else's enjoyment of the game, because they can still acquire these BPOs through purchasing them. Nor does it prevent CCP from acquiring new subscribers and holding their current subscribers.

    Lady Lupiah wrote:

    Issues


  • Players like myself who were going to buy PLEX have chosen not to, due directly to Hulkageddon. I was going to buy PLEX to get an orca, more PLEX to have a hulk-ready toon moved to a new account. But now it's a bad risk. I know others who were going to buy PLEX to pay for BPOs. But they can't mine the minerals now to use the BPOs so no PLEX needed.

    • If you can't find a way to mine during hulkageddon without getting blown up you probably wouldn't have lasted long in EVE anyway, so your argument is moot.

    Continued on next post...
    Vicata Heth
    Sensible People
    Sigma Grindset
    #219 - 2012-06-01 23:54:36 UTC
    Lady Lupiah wrote:

  • CCP has apparently directly responded to Hulkageddon, by offering minign crystal packages to miners, and cruisers to players (which ships are now horribly inflated in price, when the mission payouts for new players are not adjusted).
  • Can a miner, through hard work and industry, make thier on mining ship? No: they cannot. The moon goo debacle is making some corps/allainces super rich, and has destroyed the basic concept of EVE, that you can get there if you work hard enough. T2 Moon goo market has, in effect, failed, which CCP has now tacitly acknowledged by adding T3 ships which take different things to make.

    • While it's not feasible for a solo miner to produce their own hulk, they can produce their own mining barges perfectly fine. I will assume you were referring to hulks however. There's a reason for the market, and it's perfectly feasible to acquire the ISK to purchase your very own hulk, as players do it every day. EVE doesn't mean easy by any means.

    Lady Lupiah wrote:

    Proposals

    A. Double the hold space on all exhumers. It is a joke that some combat ships have more hold space than ORE ships.

    Which combat ship has a BASE hold space of 8000m3? I'm sure there are a lot of traders that would love to know.
    Lady Lupiah wrote:

    B. Fix insurance payouts on Exhumers. A 10 million cost policy should not pay 30 million, when the replacement ship is 300 million. Moon minerals are minerals, too.

    I'm un-biased on this one, because I don't know all the intended effects from this mechanic etc.
    Lady Lupiah wrote:

    C. Fix the DPS/defence impalance. Destoyers were added, then repeatedly upgraded with mods and later rigs, and faction ammo etc etc etc. 4 destroyers will always kill a solo Hulk, in any level of security, even though they can be made for less cost than the Hulk's mining turrets and crystals.

    So use a battleship fitted with mining lasers when you know ganking is going to be an issue. If CCP felt that you should only be able to mine in one ship, they wouldn't have made it possible to mine in other ships. You can get a maximum yield of 1500 per cycle with a hulk. A rokh is capable of achieving 971 per cycle with three mining laser upgrades and 8 mining lasers. And it still has room for a tank, which you don't need much of to stop gankers.

    Lady Lupiah wrote:
    D. Fix social guiild war-griefing. Add a new type of Corp, a "Craft Guild", that cannot initiate wars, be war decced, or own any PoS / soverignty structures. It shouldbe able to be upgreaded to a full Corp for a cost based on a multiplier of its number of members. Social gameplay increases player retention: what we have at the moment are billionaire alts in new player corps who fly ships so large they are effectively immune to griefing, and greifers making people taking the step from solo to team player simply quit the game.

    Yes, because giving the large alliances a way to make their logistics operations invincible is certainly the best way to solve the issue.

    Continued on next post...
    Vicata Heth
    Sensible People
    Sigma Grindset
    #220 - 2012-06-01 23:54:43 UTC
    Lady Lupiah wrote:

    E. Introduce moon mining to 0.7 and lower planets, with mini-variant PoS (not as big, not as efficient, not exclusive per moon, but with Concord protection). Supply and demand has effectively failed many players: there is no way for social / casual players to copy / do ME research / refine / mine moon goos: yet the T1 ships are now effectively obsolete for the game content (mining, incursions, missions are all geared to the higher level ships/modules).

    I will directly quote you here, because after all you argue against your own point prior.

    Quote:
    The different zones of space are intended to have a risk-reward axis, from safer from pvp but poor mission reward/low quality minerals to high risk / high rewards.


    Further, obtaining the ISK to purchase and set up a POS in high sec to do research with is actually very feasible for the average player. T1 ships aren't obsolete by any means, there are actually some t1 ships that are more effective than their t2 counterpart. After all, you don't see suicide gankers running around in Tengus do you?
    Lady Lupiah wrote:

    F. Introduce advanced drones for miners. In particular, a dampner drone, that when depolyed hides the site and ship from a system scan. Even if it is tagged "This clever device uses Concord towers to achieve its aim, so simply won't work where Concord are not as common" (e.g. 0.8 ~ 1.0 systems only).

    No. This would allow a single player to horde sites all for themselves, and isn't necessary as there are already existing mechanics that can be used to work around gankers. This is EVE, you aren't safe anywhere, and nobody who understands how EVE works supports making miners invulnerable. Further, if miners became invulnerable, mining would become even less profitable as a result, which is already an existing issue.
    Lady Lupiah wrote:

    G. Consequences. DUST 514 marines should be given an in-station environment, and when a player is scammed, they should be able to report the scammer to the proper authorities (i,e, a GM as Concord's rep). The scammer should get a security hit, be allowed to have a bounty placed on them, and then DUST marines should be allowed to go into stations and hunt them down and kill them (or not, if the scammer has hired mercs to defend ...). Would I hire marines to go kill certain people? Sure I would, they deserve it, mainly for costing CCP real income due to customer loss.

    You're free to hire mercenary corporations to avenge the scammers if you like. Therefore the mechanic you suggest is already in place. On top of that, PvP does not mean combat, and there are more forms of PvP than ship vs ship combat. Think outside the sandbox.
    Lady Lupiah wrote:

    H. Consequences, #2. An alt should also be allowed to be killed if DUST marines go in after their scammer/wanted toon. If you are running a billion ISK a day sacmmer, every toon on your account should be a target if you get DUSTED. Don't like it? Pay for anohter account, at least CCP will get more revenue for funding the GMs who clean up the mess from scammers.

    The only mess created as a result of scamming, is the mess that is created in the GM's petition list when the fool who was quickly parted with his ISK attempts to get CCP to aide them, to no avail. The person who's creating the mess here is the fool, not the scammer. The scammer is just using game mechanics and greed to his advantage.

    Continued on next page...