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About hybrid armor tanking

Author
Denuo Secus
#1 - 2011-10-04 10:54:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Denuo Secus
Hi all,

hybrid armor tanking = buffer + one repper.

I'd like to ask about opinions when it comes to armor tanking of tech1 ships (in small scale PvP). Tech2 ships have high resistances, so there's a great benefit when fitting armor reppers. But on tech1 ships I don't even get a defence value (in EFT) which is higher compared to the passive regeneration of shield buffers. Example: a nano Drake (1 LSE + 1 Invul) has 96 DPS omni defence, a 1600mm Harb with 1 EANP + 1 ANP and one medium armor repper gets just 84 DPS omni defence.

So in EFT world a pure armor buffer would make more sense. My raw EHP value would be much higher that way. But in-game I often try to use a repper nevertheless. We do PvP in low sec, factional warefare. We try to avoid blobs, it's alot back and forth at times. It just feels better to be able to repair in space. Sometimes we've prolonged fights with some interruptions. Fighting on a gate -> a blob appears on scanner -> retreat -> hunting/waiting -> another attack...and so on. Another reason: border systems don't have stations every time. Sometimes a station is 1-3 jumps away. Also: docking on stations invites to get camped on this station. We rather try to keep moving.

So in my books it does make sense to fit armor reppers even on tech1 armor tanked ships and even by getting less EHP that way. At least as long as no dedicated logistic is part of the fleet ofc. But I know sometimes it would be better to have just more raw EHP to survive fights where we're (slightly) outnumbered.

I want to ask about other opinions. What is your preference, and why?

Thanks.
Mart Allini
Lead Farmers
#2 - 2011-10-04 11:10:40 UTC
I would always fit pure buffer on armor tanks unless your going for specialized repper fits like the tri-rep myrm.

One possible solution to solve the repping in between fights problem is to have you and your fleetmates field a flight of logi drones. With the 50m3 of most BCs, you should be able to field a flight of logi and a flight of warrior 2
Nor Tzestu
Dos Pollos Hermanos
Elementium Alliance
#3 - 2011-10-04 11:16:50 UTC
Everyone packing an offlined remote armor repper would work nicely. Fight, run off to a safe.Everyone onlines they're repper. Bring everyone back up to full buffer. Rinse repeat.
Lugalzagezi666
#4 - 2011-10-04 11:19:10 UTC
For bigger ships its usually only worth when you have no opportunity to repair your ship in station. On cap deficient ship like harbi, that is hell to fit even without repper/med cap booster its waste of resources imo. It gives you some more defence, but at the cost of dps and making your vulnerability to neuts even worse.
Aamrr
#5 - 2011-10-04 11:33:40 UTC
Unless you've got a bonus (Brutix, Myrmidon, Hyperion, Legion, Proteus), active armor tanking is usually ill-advised. Most armor tankers use capacitor-intensive turrets, and finding the free capacitor to run a tank is challenging even before neutralization is present.

Honestly, nerf trimarks. They should at least have a stacking penalty...
MukkBarovian
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-10-05 02:44:13 UTC
Active repper on your buffer tank only really makes sense when you won't be able to rep up after a fight otherwise.
This generally implies:
No station Access
No buddies who could run RR for you

This isn't the best place for an armor tanker to be in the first place. It implies no scout on a slow buffer tank for one thing.

But when you do end up someplace by yourself in a buffered armor tank far from home... Its nice to have a self rep.
Wacktopia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-05 08:03:12 UTC
Aamrr wrote:
Unless you've got a bonus (Brutix, Myrmidon, Hyperion, Legion, Proteus), active armor tanking is usually ill-advised. Most armor tankers use capacitor-intensive turrets, and finding the free capacitor to run a tank is challenging even before neutralization is present.

Honestly, nerf trimarks. They should at least have a stacking penalty...


Why?

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com

vorneus
Hub2
#8 - 2011-10-05 12:30:08 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
Aamrr wrote:
Unless you've got a bonus (Brutix, Myrmidon, Hyperion, Legion, Proteus), active armor tanking is usually ill-advised. Most armor tankers use capacitor-intensive turrets, and finding the free capacitor to run a tank is challenging even before neutralization is present.

Honestly, nerf trimarks. They should at least have a stacking penalty...


Why?


I'd much prefer to see active armor tanking rigs (aux. nano and nanobot accel.) not suffer the same mass/speed (I forget which it is, probably mass) penalty as trimarks.

That might actually make a good active tanking myrm not slow as a brick, and go a small way to fixing the problems inherent with the Gallente blasterboat active tank 'design', which is flawed in its current state.

Active armor tank on a 6 low-slot Brutix which you need a reactor control to fit Neutrons on anyway? Lol k. Nice bonus.

-Ed

This one time, I like, totally did some stuff.

Aamrr
#9 - 2011-10-05 12:58:34 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
Aamrr wrote:
Honestly, nerf trimarks. They should at least have a stacking penalty...


Why?


Because trimarks have become the de facto rig for PvP for almost every armor tanker in the game. (Shields: See CDFEs.) Armor tankers not only suffer the speed penalty for their active tanking rigs, they also suffer a vulnerability to alpha strikes and extreme capacitor strain to run their tanks.

When almost PvP-fitted ship in the game is buffer tanking and they're doing it nearly universally by trimarks (rather than, for example, resist rigs) -- it's worth looking at. Particularly when HP multipliers are an attribute that is stacking penalized elsewhere (regenerative membranes).

At the very least, I think we should consider adding armor compensation skills to armor resist rigs.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-10-05 13:17:26 UTC
Armor buffer/active tanking is screwed in many ways directly or not by several drawbacks:

Speed
Agility
Cap/pg fitting requirements
Weapon system
Riggs/armor modules drawbacks
Cap charges size/cargo capacity/ammo size

Conditions to be successful are heavy compared with regular shield buffer setup (aka drake/hurricane)