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First Impression of Faction Warfare -- post inferno patch

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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#261 - 2012-06-01 20:49:47 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Haulie Berry wrote:

Killing station games alone is a colossal victory for gameplay reasons, if you really need one. I've never met a player who actually likes station games. They're officially dead in FW, and all anyone can do is ***** about how they can't play station games anymore. P


This is the best argument for station lockouts I've seen.

Haulie Berry wrote:

Quote:
Of course. Now just like in null sec, the blob can slowly creep across the systems and the damage the other side can do behind enemy lines is greatly reduced.

I don't know about caldari and gallente but in the Amarr minmatar war there are only a few systems that aren't dead. Whereas before we used to be able to roam around throughout and get fights. Now its you either fight the kam/kourm blobs or you have a slow night.


All I heard was, "NO! I DON'T WANNA CHANGE! WHAAAA!"


Actually, this is more "No, I don't want nullsec". I have had some issues where normally I'd like to just quickly dock and run to the washroom, and instead I have to wait another 5 minutes while I go find a friendly system to dock in. That's a significant negative, and it's far worse for members of my corp who need to drop everything and do a diaper change/vomit cleanup, who were specifically in factional warfare and not nullsec for that kind of flexibility.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#262 - 2012-06-01 20:51:54 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
Killing station games alone is a colossal victory for gameplay reasons, if you really need one. I've never met a player who actually likes station games. They're officially dead in FW, and all anyone can do is ***** about how they can't play station games anymore. P


Man, it's like we've gone weeks back in time and I'm both raising and smashing this very argument for the very first time.

Station games never ******* mattered. You can just fly away. If there's a guy mocking you from within docking range, and you don't want to deal with that, then you don't. There was never anything forcing anyone to engage people like that. If the arguments you can raise to defend station lockout are that they have this completely insignificant benefit and that they also 'make sense' (if you're a moron, and don't immediately wonder why it makes sense for your locked-out goods to be recoverable by an alt rather than destroyed or turned over to the enemy, or why you don't get an instant biomass and a 'game over' screen if you die while your medical clone is based in an enemy station, or...), then you actually have no real defense for it.

So please pick up your "hey guys!! I haven't been following the discussion but I just thought of this really killer argument that proves you're all wrong whiners and should shut up!" and take it elsewhere.
Haulie Berry
#263 - 2012-06-01 20:53:31 UTC
Cearain wrote:
[quote=Haulie Berry]

Its probably true that is all you hear. That is happening because you are reacting emotionally. Your emotional reaction is turning off the rational part of your brain.


Funny, because I' m pretty sure that's the reason why you spend all of your time whining on the forum while Fweddit does all the heavy lifting for Amarr militia.
Haulie Berry
#264 - 2012-06-01 20:54:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Kuehnelt wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Killing station games alone is a colossal victory for gameplay reasons, if you really need one. I've never met a player who actually likes station games. They're officially dead in FW, and all anyone can do is ***** about how they can't play station games anymore. P


Man, it's like we've gone weeks back in time and I'm both raising and smashing this very argument for the very first time.

Station games never ******* mattered. You can just fly away.


And yet they happened... and now, they don't. Funny, that part. Regardless of whether or not they mattered to the larger scope of faction war, they were a PART of it and now they aren't and it's ******* brilliant - at least for those of us who are actually playing.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#265 - 2012-06-01 20:58:04 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
And yet they happened... and now, they don't. Funny, that part. Regardless of whether or not they mattered to the larger scope of faction war, they were a PART of it and now they aren't and it's ******* brilliant - at least for those of us who are actually playing.


"I agree that nobody ever had to deal with that ****, but people who aren't me chose to do so, and now they can't, which is brilliant."

You don't read your own posts. Well, OK, I won't read them either.
Haulie Berry
#266 - 2012-06-01 21:00:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Kuehnelt wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
And yet they happened... and now, they don't. Funny, that part. Regardless of whether or not they mattered to the larger scope of faction war, they were a PART of it and now they aren't and it's ******* brilliant - at least for those of us who are actually playing.


"I agree that nobody ever had to deal with that ****, but people who aren't me chose to do so, and now they can't, which is brilliant."

You don't read your own posts. Well, OK, I won't read them either.


Err... that's not what I said, though. I'm just going to assume at this point that your'e some kind of marginally functional illiterate, okay?

Maybe Hooked on Phonics could work for you? They still have that, right?

As an aside, the other complaint I've seen from you bears has been that Amarr is in such an underdog position that it can't every possibly recover.

Some newbs in meta0 fit frigates just sacked Lamaa. How can this be?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#267 - 2012-06-01 21:28:14 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
Cearain wrote:
[quote=Haulie Berry]

Its probably true that is all you hear. That is happening because you are reacting emotionally. Your emotional reaction is turning off the rational part of your brain.


Funny, because I' m pretty sure that's the reason why you spend all of your time whining on the forum while Fweddit does all the heavy lifting for Amarr militia.



Whose alt are you anyway?

Until you say, I think I will just assume you are susan black's troll alt.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#268 - 2012-06-01 21:44:53 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Cearain wrote:
[quote=Haulie Berry]

Its probably true that is all you hear. That is happening because you are reacting emotionally. Your emotional reaction is turning off the rational part of your brain.


Funny, because I' m pretty sure that's the reason why you spend all of your time whining on the forum while Fweddit does all the heavy lifting for Amarr militia.



Whose alt are you anyway?

Until you say, I think I will just assume you are susan black's troll alt.


Susan Black is actually Shalee Lianne, true story.


I remember I had them both on voice once and I accidentally called Susan Shalee and vice versa: I don't recommend that. Cry

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#269 - 2012-06-01 23:49:08 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

We have good reason to think raa fell without a fight due to station lockouts.
Ignorance is bliss. Raa has no stations, and there's a high sec station next door to Raa that could have been used.

Bottom line: Amarr don't have the personnel right now to spend defending a non-contiguous system (not in the Kamela/Sahtogas pipe) like Raa.

This

We are trying to hold the pipe and extend it rather then save the one isolated system that holds little value.

Again I say

HIT AUGA AND THE OTHER BACKWATER SYSTEMS AND MAKE THE MINNIES REACT TO US FOR ONCE instead of complaining!!!



That system holds just as much value in the war as any other.

The only reason we didn't fight for it is because it is isolated. The only reason it is isolated is because of station lockouts. Hence the station lockouts are the reason we didn't fight for it.

Your "holding the pipe" is not really helping the overall amarr militia make gains any more (and likely less) than if you were running offensive plexes as much as you could. To force the minmatar to spread out.

The pipe you are holding is pretty much worthless. Minmatar doesn't need it, and no matter how we upgrade it our lp is still worthless. But whatever keep clutching your pipe. I don't care, what you do with your free time. P

Raa IS worthless to us at the moment compared to OTHER systems.

BTW - us holding the pipe and pushing from there has won back Lamaa...
Oyo is now a valid target, or a push can be made for Tzvi as well perhaps???
The point is, there are BATTLE LINES like I have been saying. You work around them... Think WWI trench warfare if you don't get it...
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#270 - 2012-06-02 00:31:20 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Har Harrison wrote:
I will not sacrifice the Kamela and Sahtogas. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, and no farther! And I will make them pay for what they've done!


HOLD! We must stand and fight!

I knew I saw you somewhere else before....
Dynast
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#271 - 2012-06-02 01:07:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Dynast
Kuehnelt wrote:
Station games never ******* mattered. You can just fly away. If there's a guy mocking you from within docking range, and you don't want to deal with that, then you don't. There was never anything forcing anyone to engage people like that. If the arguments you can raise to defend station lockout are that they have this completely insignificant benefit and that they also 'make sense' (if you're a moron, and don't immediately wonder why it makes sense for your locked-out goods to be recoverable by an alt rather than destroyed or turned over to the enemy, or why you don't get an instant biomass and a 'game over' screen if you die while your medical clone is based in an enemy station, or...), then you actually have no real defense for it.

So please pick up your "hey guys!! I haven't been following the discussion but I just thought of this really killer argument that proves you're all wrong whiners and should shut up!" and take it elsewhere.


Station games aren't a problem when it's one dude chilling on station, they're a problem when it's him and a few buddies with an insta-locking proteus and a carrier for reps that never, ever aggresses. They need to take one more step to really fix this in FW though, lock non-FW players out of FW stations. There's plenty of stations to go around for everyone else.

Edit: and to be clear, it wasn't just organized camps, there was a lot of station gaming back in forth in Nennamaila and Enaluri when THE4 lived in En like six months back. I don't think anyone misses it.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#272 - 2012-06-02 01:10:54 UTC
Har Harrison wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

We have good reason to think raa fell without a fight due to station lockouts.
Ignorance is bliss. Raa has no stations, and there's a high sec station next door to Raa that could have been used.

Bottom line: Amarr don't have the personnel right now to spend defending a non-contiguous system (not in the Kamela/Sahtogas pipe) like Raa.

This

We are trying to hold the pipe and extend it rather then save the one isolated system that holds little value.

Again I say

HIT AUGA AND THE OTHER BACKWATER SYSTEMS AND MAKE THE MINNIES REACT TO US FOR ONCE instead of complaining!!!



That system holds just as much value in the war as any other.

The only reason we didn't fight for it is because it is isolated. The only reason it is isolated is because of station lockouts. Hence the station lockouts are the reason we didn't fight for it.

Your "holding the pipe" is not really helping the overall amarr militia make gains any more (and likely less) than if you were running offensive plexes as much as you could. To force the minmatar to spread out.

The pipe you are holding is pretty much worthless. Minmatar doesn't need it, and no matter how we upgrade it our lp is still worthless. But whatever keep clutching your pipe. I don't care, what you do with your free time. P

Raa IS worthless to us at the moment compared to OTHER systems.

BTW - us holding the pipe and pushing from there has won back Lamaa...
Oyo is now a valid target, or a push can be made for Tzvi as well perhaps???
The point is, there are BATTLE LINES like I have been saying. You work around them... Think WWI trench warfare if you don't get it...



I don't have to pull out history books. I can just look at null sec.

We won back lamaa because we did plexing there. We lost Raa because we did not plex there. We did plexing in lamaa as opposed because we can dock next to it. We did not plex in raa becasue we can not dock next to it. We can't dock next to raa because of the station lockouts. Hence we didn't fight for raa becasue of the station lockouts.

The notion that we should fight for systems next to where we can dock ships is so obvious that to call it a "strategy" is a stretch.

I'm not saying there would be better strategies if we could dock whereever we want. I am saying we would have fighting that is much more spread out and involves more than planting your blob in kamela.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2012-06-02 03:24:19 UTC
Back on this old chestnut?
Raa has a high sec system next door people COULD have used. They didn't as Raa wasn't worth it at the time...
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#274 - 2012-06-02 03:28:31 UTC
Har Harrison wrote:
Back on this old chestnut?
Raa has a high sec system next door people COULD have used. They didn't as Raa wasn't worth it at the time...


Back on that old chestnut?

Did you not read the reasons I already gave why we wouldn't want to base out of high sec? I couldn't make that recomendation to my corp with a straight face.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#275 - 2012-06-02 03:33:46 UTC
Har Harrison wrote:
Back on this old chestnut?
Raa has a high sec system next door people COULD have used. They didn't as Raa wasn't worth it at the time...


People in low sec have problem with sec status unlike THE REST OF EVE: yet another amazingly accurate and relevant reason ccp was totally high to change everything AND include lockouts before testing the water first...

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#276 - 2012-06-02 03:34:41 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
Back on this old chestnut?
Raa has a high sec system next door people COULD have used. They didn't as Raa wasn't worth it at the time...


Back on that old chestnut?

Did you not read the reasons I already gave why we wouldn't want to base out of high sec? I couldn't make that recomendation to my corp with a straight face.

The only reason I got was a sec status issue which is NOT an issue for everyone and COULD be fixed with some belt ratting IF you really wanted to make that difference...
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#277 - 2012-06-02 03:35:57 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
Back on this old chestnut?
Raa has a high sec system next door people COULD have used. They didn't as Raa wasn't worth it at the time...


People in low sec have problem with sec status unlike THE REST OF EVE: yet another amazingly accurate and relevant reason ccp was totally high to change everything AND include lockouts before testing the water first...

Yes, they have this issue IF they go gcc all the time AND don't do anything to fix this (including training skills that increase the amount of sec status you get for killing a rat...).
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#278 - 2012-06-02 03:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
Har Harrison wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
Back on this old chestnut?
Raa has a high sec system next door people COULD have used. They didn't as Raa wasn't worth it at the time...


Back on that old chestnut?

Did you not read the reasons I already gave why we wouldn't want to base out of high sec? I couldn't make that recomendation to my corp with a straight face.

The only reason I got was a sec status issue which is NOT an issue for everyone and COULD be fixed with some belt ratting IF you really wanted to make that difference...



Dude i have to not pvp for like 2 days to reverse my sec enough to rectify a hand full of aggressions (like on minmatar neutral alt boosters and logi)

Yes i could go to 0.0 and do it in half the time, but thats hardly a fix for being able to participate in fw.

The same way fighting fw in low sec from a non fw system is retardified and makes no sense.

poor planning produces poor performance, which promotes profuse pity posts. lul.

i have all social skills to 5, i know it doesnt show on the forums though LOLOLOL

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#279 - 2012-06-02 04:11:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Har Harrison wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
Back on this old chestnut?
Raa has a high sec system next door people COULD have used. They didn't as Raa wasn't worth it at the time...


Back on that old chestnut?

Did you not read the reasons I already gave why we wouldn't want to base out of high sec? I couldn't make that recomendation to my corp with a straight face.

The only reason I got was a sec status issue which is NOT an issue for everyone and COULD be fixed with some belt ratting IF you really wanted to make that difference...


har
Allot of the leaders in my corp, and those we fly with are negative 10. They are not going to go do a bunch of pve for ages so that they can dock in a high sec system so we might be able to hold a system. You are just out of touch.

Look for anyone who is even the least bit unbiaed I think its clear we would have fought for Raa if the station lockouts were not an issue. Before we moved to egg we were fighting for and winning systems around our base in arzad. This was even before we knew the economic consequences would be so drastic.

I'm not saying we would have been able to hold raa. But it wouldn't have been taken without a shot fired. If you can't recognize how the station lock out was a detrement to pvp in that case you are just being stubborn.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Jones Bones
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#280 - 2012-06-02 05:10:06 UTC
Cearain wrote:

Look for anyone who is even the least bit unbiaed I think its clear we would have fought for Raa if the station lockouts were not an issue. Before we moved to egg we were fighting for and winning systems around our base in arzad. This was even before we knew the economic consequences would be so drastic.


We never ran a single defensive plex in Raa. And you do not need a station to base out of. Do you think the Minnie plexers who took Raa based next door? No, they came from Dal, Kourm and Auga.

You guys really need to get over the station lockouts, they are not going away.