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Tanking the hulk: medium ancillary shield booster

First post
Author
Frederick Sanger
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-06-01 18:53:17 UTC
Why would I fit a tank and get less iskies when I can just stomp my feet and pout on the forums?
The Groundskeeper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-06-01 18:56:40 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
FYI before you go talking about why a high-sec exhumer should sacrifice yield you might want to check with people that mine in 0.0.

You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null.

Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ?


If you want you can play the game the nullsec miners do, and get safe every time anyone you don't have set blue enters local. No tank needed, there, and you can fit for cargo and yield.

Risk vs reward, sunshine.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-06-01 18:58:48 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:
Furthermore, Reducing yield is like fittinig more tank on your PvP ship at the expense of dps. I believe the PvP trend is mostly to have the right amount of dps otherwise your fit is gimped.


Even if that were true (it's not, entirely. Different fleet compositions can serve entirely different purposes), it'd be seen as an acceptable sacrifice, i.e. part of the game. Anyone who PVP's knows that if you sacrifice your tank for anything else (sacrificing a shield tank for better lock times/tackle, or an armor tank for more DPS/mobility), you make yourself squishier, and you act accordingly.

That's the big fundamental difference between the two attitudes. PVP'ers make balance sacrifices all the time, and it's seen as a matter of course. Miners, on the other hand, go full gank (yield) while ignoring the tank bonus of their chosen ship and then scream about imbalances when they end up easy to gank because of it.

(note: I'm also not really telling YOU this, as I'm pretty sure you get it. This is more of a general screed for the dumbs that post **** like "WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO SACRIFICE YIELD").

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

EnslaverOfMinmatar
You gonna get aped
#24 - 2012-06-01 19:00:39 UTC
[Hulk, Cheap Ungankable Hulk]
Damage Control II
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core

Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Medium 'Canyon' Shield Extender

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Every EVE player must read this http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=29-01-07

Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-06-01 19:02:14 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Why am I, a griefer and supporter of ganking posting this?


Because it's no fun without targets.
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#26 - 2012-06-01 19:02:42 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Did you know that a hulk gives a 15 % bonus to yield (at level 5)
So wouldn't it make more sense to just fly a Covetor then worry about tanking a Hulk ?


Simetraz speaks Truth.

Compare the ROI of a Cov with an MLU-II to a tanked Hulk with no MLUs. Then consider that the Hulk will still die to any serious gank.

Once you discount the ineffective tank, the advantages of a max skilled Hulk are 6% yield, and a cargo bay. With Exhumer-IV, that yield bonus drops to 3%. For that, you put a 250Misk bull's eye on the line.

Do your self a favor. Fly a Cov, join an Op, and keep the other 200Misk safe in your wallet.
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#27 - 2012-06-01 19:03:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ituhata Saken
Malphilos wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Why am I, a griefer and supporter of ganking posting this?


Because it's no fun without targets.


Correction, it's no fun without smart targets. Smile I now have an urge to re-read The Most Dangerous Game.

EDIT: Correction, its been long time since i read that in school.

So close...

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-06-01 19:03:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
why not just fit a covetors with two medium overclocking rigs and two MLU IIs and mine away at full Hulk yield - 3% exhumer bonus per level

85% of a hulk's max yield, 1/10 of the cost and fully T1 insurable

oh well
Haulie Berry
#29 - 2012-06-01 19:04:08 UTC
But but but I could still be ganked by like 5 tornadoes anyway, so it doesn't matter anyway, I should just leave my mids empty.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-06-01 19:18:41 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
why not just fit a covetors with two medium overclocking rigs and two MLU IIs and mine away at full Hulk yield - 3% exhumer bonus per level

oh well


See it isn't that hard Big smile
People just need to think, and not let someone else dictate what your going to do.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#31 - 2012-06-01 19:21:18 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
I'd be a little wary, I'd rather go full buffer tank for about 29k EHP myself.


To be honest, there's not a lot to be done about defending against alpha. If someone wants to alpha a hulk, they will do it.

The question is, would this survive a destroyer gank, which relies on DPS overcoming a buffer before concord arrives, better than that 29k EHP? As I said, this is very much a new idea and could probably be improved.

Simetraz wrote:
You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null.

Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ?


You try solo mining in null and then ask me that question.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#32 - 2012-06-01 19:23:21 UTC
EnslaverOfMinmatar wrote:
[Hulk, Cheap Ungankable Hulk]
Damage Control II
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core

Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Medium 'Canyon' Shield Extender

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II


That's quite a killmail waiting to happen.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#33 - 2012-06-01 19:34:20 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
I'd be a little wary, I'd rather go full buffer tank for about 29k EHP myself.


To be honest, there's not a lot to be done about defending against alpha. If someone wants to alpha a hulk, they will do it.

The question is, would this survive a destroyer gank, which relies on DPS overcoming a buffer before concord arrives, better than that 29k EHP? As I said, this is very much a new idea and could probably be improved.
.


I just kinda did fuzzy math in my head, i think a catalyst does about 700dps with the booster subtracting 200 of that, I think the bigger buffer would be safer. I am in no way proclaiming I am right, just my own opinion.

So close...

Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-06-01 19:39:13 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Why am I, a griefer and supporter of ganking posting this?


Because it's no fun without targets.


Correction, it's no fun without smart targets.Smile I now have an urge to re-read The Most Dangerous Game.

EDIT: Correction, its been long time since i read that in school.


I think that's trivially false. Smart targets don't generate tears.

I think there's something a little more interesting going on.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-06-01 19:42:35 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
[Hulk, New Setup 2]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Mining Drone II x5


37k ehp against blasters but hey I guess 15% more yield is more important than surviving because CCP will make hisec safer for you right?


For some reason I can't take this fit seriously. That DG Thermic field is like 70M. "Gank me!" should be proper name for that Hulk.
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#36 - 2012-06-01 19:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ituhata Saken
Malphilos wrote:


I think that's trivially false. Smart targets don't generate tears.

I think there's something a little more interesting going on.


They are decoy tears to confuse you!!!

So close...

Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-06-01 19:49:15 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
. That DG Thermic field is like 70M. "Gank me!" should be proper name for that Hulk.


You're right about the rest of the fit (hint: look at the title of the ship, it's a troll), but DG non-Invulns aren't that expensive, like 20mil maybe (I just checked the DG Thermic, it's 8mil, the others are different though). They're just T2 equivalents with lower fitting requirements. I used them on my ratting Drakes before my fitting skills were up to snuff.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-06-01 19:49:37 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
For some reason I can't take this fit seriously. That DG Thermic field is like 70M. "Gank me!" should be proper name for that Hulk.


Wow someone doesn't bother to log in to check prices, it's 10m

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#39 - 2012-06-01 19:49:55 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
I just kinda did fuzzy math in my head, i think a catalyst does about 700dps with the booster subtracting 200 of that, I think the bigger buffer would be safer. I am in no way proclaiming I am right, just my own opinion.

What would really make this fit shine would be a Tengu booster, pushing it up close to 500 DPS tanked.

Buffer might be better, I dunno. I don't fly hulks any more, so I have no need to actually tank one. I'm just trying to put some new ideas out there and get those miners who DO tank their stuff to look into options. Because Eve is a lot more fun when you explore it, now matter how you do so.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#40 - 2012-06-01 19:51:38 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
I think that's trivially false. Smart targets don't generate tears.

I think there's something a little more interesting going on.


Smart targets DO generate entertaining fights. I'd prefer to occasionally lose to smart targets than always win against dumb ones.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.