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When does all the ganking make mining worth it?
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Khadann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#101 - 2012-06-01 17:00:00 UTC
Tenchi Sal wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The bad: mining sucks. It's boring as hell, it doesn't pay much (yet), and is generally the fastest way to get bored and quit EVE unless you're a bot.

The good: endless ganking of mining barges and carebears who are too stupid to figure out how to avoid being ganked and/or too lazy to make even the most basic attempts to protect themselves. When these worthless parasites on the game finally ragequit, mineral prices will increase and mining will become a much more profitable activity.

So, the question: when will enough carebears ragequit to get the ISK/hour for mining to a point that the profit justifies the endless misery of mining? At what point will even the most dedicated griefers and pirates find themselves training Mining Barge V?


im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.



THIS
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#102 - 2012-06-01 17:03:36 UTC
Khadann wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The bad: mining sucks. It's boring as hell, it doesn't pay much (yet), and is generally the fastest way to get bored and quit EVE unless you're a bot.

The good: endless ganking of mining barges and carebears who are too stupid to figure out how to avoid being ganked and/or too lazy to make even the most basic attempts to protect themselves. When these worthless parasites on the game finally ragequit, mineral prices will increase and mining will become a much more profitable activity.

So, the question: when will enough carebears ragequit to get the ISK/hour for mining to a point that the profit justifies the endless misery of mining? At what point will even the most dedicated griefers and pirates find themselves training Mining Barge V?


im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.



THIS


Perhaps if they didn't ***** and whine so much we wouldn't call them whiny bitches.
Khadann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#103 - 2012-06-01 17:04:31 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.


You know why they're blamed? Because highsec miners, just like other highsec carebears, are bad for the game.

Highsec is supposed to be the tutorial area, with the least risk but also the lowest rewards. There should be absolutely zero profit for veteran players in highsec. If you have the skills to fly a Hulk, you should be forced to move to lowsec or 0.0 to get any money. You should NOT be given a nice gank-free AFK income source like highsec miners demand.

Hulkageddon should be impossible for the simple reason that there are no Hulks in highsec, and therefore nothing to suicide gank besides a handful of tutorial players mining in their frigates.



Describing how players should play in a sandbox does not make much sense...

Also, you mentioned it : we have the lowest risks but also the lowest rewards, it's not like if we were stealing your assets or interfering with your playstyle, we just want to be left alone... but does not help apparently :s
Khadann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#104 - 2012-06-01 17:05:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Khadann wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The bad: mining sucks. It's boring as hell, it doesn't pay much (yet), and is generally the fastest way to get bored and quit EVE unless you're a bot.

The good: endless ganking of mining barges and carebears who are too stupid to figure out how to avoid being ganked and/or too lazy to make even the most basic attempts to protect themselves. When these worthless parasites on the game finally ragequit, mineral prices will increase and mining will become a much more profitable activity.

So, the question: when will enough carebears ragequit to get the ISK/hour for mining to a point that the profit justifies the endless misery of mining? At what point will even the most dedicated griefers and pirates find themselves training Mining Barge V?


im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.



THIS


Perhaps if they didn't ***** and whine so much we wouldn't call them whiny bitches.



Perfect example of initial post, thanks Blink
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2012-06-01 17:40:08 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Andoria Thara wrote:
So remove markets from highsec, since the market PvP'ers are the ones who make the real money. Highsec miners make maybe 20mil an hour, if that.


Removing the markets would be impossible, since the game doesn't function without them, and there's no way to limit the amount of profit made. But let's not forget that the reason lowsec markets aren't profitable is because nobody lives there except gank blobs. If you remove everything else profitable from highsec, markets elsewhere become more populated and more profitable (and even more profitable than highsec, since smart players benefit from the idiots losing their haulers in gatecamps).

Lol

crybabe.... nobody plays with meeeee!!! CCP KILL HIGHSEC SO PEOPLE WILL COME HERE!

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#106 - 2012-06-01 18:07:48 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:

What part of "parasite on the game" is so hard to understand?

Highsec carebears contribute nothing to the game, and demand the removal of anything that might threaten their 100% safe income generation (preferably AFK). The best solution is that they get ganked over and over again until they quit, so the EVE universe can be a much better place.




Pretty sure those carebears (who are usually casual gamers with disposable income) contribute a monthly subscription, or sell plex that most of you buy to continue playing.


Sure, let's gank the people who are funding the game into oblivion Roll



Seems to me like people just want something to hate, or need an excuse to gank rather than just ganking for the fun of it.
Cyprus Amaro
Tortuga Coalition 102
#107 - 2012-06-01 18:07:55 UTC
Jill Xelitras wrote:
There was a time when minerals were sold by NPCs. Back then minerals had a fixed price starting with Tritanium at 1 isk per unit and going up in price to Morphite. Back then income from mining was low but acceptable in high-sec, medium very risky in low-sec and high but risky aswell in 0.0.


Thanks for the info. As a new player, I didn't know this.
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#108 - 2012-06-01 18:10:03 UTC
Fit a tank on your hulk?

what the hell else are you doing with all those mid slots? surely you noobs arent putting multiple rock scanners on your hulks... you shouldnt even have one to begin with. any real miner knows that

FC, what do?
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2012-06-01 18:18:59 UTC
Had a corp mate back in the day who was heavily into mining. Had the spreadsheets, calculators, etc. etc. To him, it was a science of tracking mineral prices, maximizing his ore m3 returns per second, balancing risk vs. reward of low sec mining, etc. To me, it seemed boring as hell. To him, all the precision and statistics-tracking of it was great fun. It was an aspect of EVE that he really enjoyed, and something no other game offered. What's wrong with letting a guy like that have some fun, if that's what he likes?
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#110 - 2012-06-01 18:20:57 UTC
Telegram Sam wrote:
What's wrong with letting a guy like that have some fun, if that's what he likes?


Ruining his fun by endlessly ganking him is what gives the "real pvp'ers" something to fap to.
Venri Zod
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2012-06-01 20:00:28 UTC
I think the miners won this thread.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#112 - 2012-06-01 20:45:31 UTC
Jill Xelitras wrote:


ACTUALLY even that is not the problem. The problem is imho that low-sec is not interesting enough for miners or PIes ...

I LOVE HIGH-SEC, really I do ... it's a great place to hang out. But it encourages too many people to just stay there forever, amass isk and turn eve into a "who's got the largest wallet" competition.



See? You are a genius, you described the greatest issue of this game in 1 paragraph:

"HI SEC is a great place to hang out".

The issue is the inability to be able to say the same about low and 0.0 sec.
No matter how you flip it, it's not the ISK, it's not the harsh-ness of the places, it's not the logistics...

... hi sec is done well and the other two are not as done well and thus players don't want to go there.


Now, one could be a donkey and apply scorched earth tactics to make hi sec as bad as low and 0.0 sec, or he could figure out how to make low and 0.0 as good and even better than hi sec.

I understand being a donkey is fast, takes little effort and even low quality persons can make hi sec into trash.

What do you believe to gain? That by making a place bad like two empty places, the two empty places magically fill up? Nope, you get three empty places.
Players in this era of MMOs have too many alternatives to take it in the posterior and deal with it.

Making low and 0.0 as good or better than hi sec would be a great accomplishment.

But then it takes quality people to achieve that, and quality developers.

Raise the hand who is ready for this challenge!
















...


crickets













....










Thought so.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2012-06-01 20:47:01 UTC
Telegram Sam wrote:
Had a corp mate back in the day who was heavily into mining. Had the spreadsheets, calculators, etc. etc. To him, it was a science of tracking mineral prices, maximizing his ore m3 returns per second, balancing risk vs. reward of low sec mining, etc. To me, it seemed boring as hell. To him, all the precision and statistics-tracking of it was great fun. It was an aspect of EVE that he really enjoyed, and something no other game offered. What's wrong with letting a guy like that have some fun, if that's what he likes?

"He's not playing our way, therefore he's playing the wrong way" would be my guess. Gankers can't seem to think in any other way than that, whether they're in huge Null-alliances or a high-sec pirate-corp. Their mindset is the same...

On a completely unrelated note (or maybe slightly related): Does this game have any honorable PvP'ers, who actually want good fights or fight to protect something rather than an inflated ISK-Efficiency on their killboard? I haven't seen any in my 3 years of playing this game. Sure, you may have a high ISK-efficiency, but what good is that when you only know how to kill things that can't fight back and you're suddenly facing a dozen or so other PvP'ers?

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#114 - 2012-06-01 21:41:29 UTC
lanyaie wrote:
Tenchi, You mad bro?


Where did the goonies touch you?

where didn't we?
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#115 - 2012-06-01 21:43:06 UTC
Khadann wrote:

Describing how players should play in a sandbox does not make much sense...

Also, you mentioned it : we have the lowest risks but also the lowest rewards, it's not like if we were stealing your assets or interfering with your playstyle, we just want to be left alone... but does not help apparently :s

of course it does

its a sandbox and what i want to do is ride you around like a donkey whipping you senseless

what you want to do is not get treated like a donkey

since my sandbox-fu is better than yours, you get to be ridden around and beaten

enjoy!
TexasFire
Texas Deep Space
#116 - 2012-06-01 21:44:09 UTC
Plaude Pollard wrote:

"He's not playing our way, therefore he's playing the wrong way" would be my guess. Gankers can't seem to think in any other way than that, whether they're in huge Null-alliances or a high-sec pirate-corp. Their mindset is the same...

On a completely unrelated note (or maybe slightly related): Does this game have any honorable PvP'ers, who actually want good fights or fight to protect something rather than an inflated ISK-Efficiency on their killboard? I haven't seen any in my 3 years of playing this game. Sure, you may have a high ISK-efficiency, but what good is that when you only know how to kill things that can't fight back and you're suddenly facing a dozen or so other PvP'ers?



The problem - The Universe has been over-run by those with no moral fiber to bring to the community. AKA "Goons" and "Mittens"

The Solution - There isn't one. Because the only way to kill them off is for a bigger group of social misfits to take them on.

There use to be honor in PvP......

I've not seen it in awhile.

I am a miner. I quad box, Three Hulks and an Orca. I Don't run bots... But I do like the people I talk to while doing so.

Empire gives me a place to relax, balance four clients on a mining op, and visit with friends on the game.

I can do this in Null, and I can warp to safe every time a neut comes in system. It is distracting and removes much of the social aspect I enjoy.

Did I say, I don't bot or marco.... But many say I do.
When you pay my subscription..... then you can tell me how to play.
Until then. Shut yer pie hole
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#117 - 2012-06-01 21:46:24 UTC
My Space Honour

Let us Joust, Good Sir, For Our Honour
Bill Loney
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2012-06-01 21:53:06 UTC
TexasFire wrote:
Plaude Pollard wrote:

"He's not playing our way, therefore he's playing the wrong way" would be my guess. Gankers can't seem to think in any other way than that, whether they're in huge Null-alliances or a high-sec pirate-corp. Their mindset is the same...

On a completely unrelated note (or maybe slightly related): Does this game have any honorable PvP'ers, who actually want good fights or fight to protect something rather than an inflated ISK-Efficiency on their killboard? I haven't seen any in my 3 years of playing this game. Sure, you may have a high ISK-efficiency, but what good is that when you only know how to kill things that can't fight back and you're suddenly facing a dozen or so other PvP'ers?



The problem - The Universe has been over-run by those with no moral fiber to bring to the community. AKA "Goons" and "Mittens"

The Solution - There isn't one. Because the only way to kill them off is for a bigger group of social misfits to take them on.

There use to be honor in PvP......

I've not seen it in awhile.

I am a miner. I quad box, Three Hulks and an Orca. I Don't run bots... But I do like the people I talk to while doing so.

Empire gives me a place to relax, balance four clients on a mining op, and visit with friends on the game.

I can do this in Null, and I can warp to safe every time a neut comes in system. It is distracting and removes much of the social aspect I enjoy.

Did I say, I don't bot or marco.... But many say I do.
When you pay my subscription..... then you can tell me how to play.
Until then. Shut yer pie hole

well said and +1
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#119 - 2012-06-01 21:54:13 UTC
when ccp make a game that works more often than not!
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2012-06-01 21:56:52 UTC
TexasFire wrote:
Plaude Pollard wrote:

"He's not playing our way, therefore he's playing the wrong way" would be my guess. Gankers can't seem to think in any other way than that, whether they're in huge Null-alliances or a high-sec pirate-corp. Their mindset is the same...

On a completely unrelated note (or maybe slightly related): Does this game have any honorable PvP'ers, who actually want good fights or fight to protect something rather than an inflated ISK-Efficiency on their killboard? I haven't seen any in my 3 years of playing this game. Sure, you may have a high ISK-efficiency, but what good is that when you only know how to kill things that can't fight back and you're suddenly facing a dozen or so other PvP'ers?



The problem - The Universe has been over-run by those with no moral fiber to bring to the community. AKA "Goons" and "Mittens"

The Solution - There isn't one. Because the only way to kill them off is for a bigger group of social misfits to take them on.

There use to be honor in PvP......

I've not seen it in awhile.

I am a miner. I quad box, Three Hulks and an Orca. I Don't run bots... But I do like the people I talk to while doing so.

Empire gives me a place to relax, balance four clients on a mining op, and visit with friends on the game.

I can do this in Null, and I can warp to safe every time a neut comes in system. It is distracting and removes much of the social aspect I enjoy.

Did I say, I don't bot or marco.... But many say I do.
When you pay my subscription..... then you can tell me how to play.
Until then. Shut yer pie hole

I'm not trying to tell anyone how to play the game. I fully respect the high-sec miner's right to mine where and when he/she chooses to. The only thing I said is that gankers only suicide-gank miners because their brain evidentally can't handle other thoughts than "you're not playing my way, therefore you're playing it wrong". I never tried to tell anyone how to do stuff. In fact, I honestly couldn't care less about how other people play. They pay for their own accounts after all. It doesn't affect me the slightest, so I don't see high-sec miners as being a problem.

In short: Play it like you want, or there's no point in playing.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.