Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Hi there,

I have yet another approach for the ongoing ship balancing that is going on right now and I hope it will make thing a little easier on the long run.

With Inferno we got four frigate class ships everybody knows changed and given a role suggestion. So far so good.
Now I do not complain about the changes and there is a but coming.

For the lower tiers and for the tech1 ships of all classes you havent yet changed, I would suggest that you don't try to fixiate on roles so much for a ship to fall into.
The ships when they were still on the drawing board must have had a concept phase they went through long before New Eden was brought to life.
The tier system also came from that time, when a new pilot of New Eden was given 50.000 skillpoints to start with and the time to skill for a higher ship class took some time.
New Eden came a long way since then.
New ships came into the world with specific roles, special abilities to enforce thier roles and yet all the tech1 ship classes remained mostly untouched for variety and freedom how to fit and what to make with them.

Don't try to push those ships into roles but give them ship bonuses instead. We already have the tech2 ships with thier roles. The tech1 ships and ship classes shouldn't be forced into roles they should or shouldn't accomplish, they should remain versatile and still have the freedom to be used and flown in different ways.

Most of the tech1 ships just need some values changed for increased cpu, powergrid, capacitor and added or rearranged slot layouts.

Keeping that in mind, don't forget the backstory of the three Empires of New Eden.

I know that most of the kids that came here don't ever have heard the story of the three Empires of New Eden and the runaway slaves.
Maybe you should have a look at them, when you take a look at each ship and ask yourself,

does x ship really mirror the manufacturer (and Empire) it came from?
did you read the information on the ship's information sheet?
did we make a mistake somewhere when we gave barbaric slaves unmatched superpowered ships and modules that do not mirror the backstory of New Eden?
does x ship really need more firepower then it already can have?
when we give x-class of ships more firepower, will that outclass higher and lower classes of ships (again)?

You can add firepower here and there and give it some days and youll get a cry for another shipclass in the need of a buff in firepower or tank or both.
I think increasing x stat of any kind isn't the only answer because it will only leads to a spiral pattern that only goes up.

Increase firepower here, some shipclass cries for more tank to compensate / counter, then repeat over and over and in 2015 a tech1 cruiser will do 2000 dps to counter battlecruisers 2.000.000.000 ehp and so forth.

Don't get me wrong, the ship overhaul is long overdue, there is no doubt in that.
Some ships need an increase in firepower, some actually dont but need more firepower but maybe another slot and some increased cpu and powergrid.

Amarr tech1 cruisers will benefit the most from increased firepower and increased capacitor + ship bonus (not role bonus).
I cant say anything about increasing the powergrid for them, since I dont fly them.

The Moa and the Thorax would benefit from increased powergrid to 1300 base powergrid (all needed engineering skills at V) and +50 cpu for the both of them.
Another medium slot for the Moa and another high slot for the Thorax (no turret, no launcher hardpoint) wouldn't hurt them either.
For the other cruisers and ship classes you do the math.

Don't try to force tech1 ships to only be fit in one way to be competitive (role specific) and let the pilot decide how they want to use a ship.
I can think of many ways to fit a Moa (for example), even as a mining boat (and yes the Osprey has a larger mining yield per minute).

If you think that for x ship it would be too much to add more cpu or powergrid, maybe some modules need a little adjustment to be able to fit them on x ship (ship class?).

For example, it escapes me why a Brutix (battlecruiser class) is not able to fit neutron blaster II' without powergrid and cpu modules and maybe an armor repair unit on it.
For what ship were the neutron blasters designed to fit on?
Did they were designed to make jokes about the Gallente?

Another example,
the Scorpions target sensor strenght is 93.8mm (related electronic skills all V) on a ship that states it is technological superior to any other kind of ship in New Eden.

Now lets look at a different ship of the same class and tier, the Typhoon:
The signature resolution on that slave boat is 143.8mm and according to the background someone forgot along the way is from barbaric runaway slaves and would suggest it is technological inferior to the Scorpion.

Is that ridiculous low signature resolution another joke about the technological inferior Caldari?
Did someone put the values to the wrong ship?

Lets have a look at the barbaric runaway slave ships:
We have have 3 ship classes and lacking two ship classes:
Small frigate class (rifter,..), large frigate class (rupture, stabber,..), cruiser class (Hurricane,..), battlecruiser class (Tempest, Typhoon, Mealstrom).

And some nice pirate faction ships that fit perfectly in those classes:
Large frigate (Cynabel), battlecruiser class (Machariel)

Now what would those slave ships and pirate faction ships all in common?
They fast, dictate range in any situation, deal any flavor of damage they see fit at any range they see fit, immune to capacitor warfare, ability to always use the largest ships class guns with no sacrifice to fit large buffer tanks and gank.
And the lowest signature radii ontop of that to not get hit by anything.
(Hm there was a word, an attribute for that kind of too much power but I cant remember it....)

Maybe my intended audience for my idea is the team that makes the ship balancing and not the common forum troll you find here way too often.

My idea here is for CCP which may or not help them easy up the process of ship balancing and other things to look into along the way.
I gave some examples and some general ideas for them to consider, CCP may also choose to read, not read, respond, not respond, take into account or dismiss any all or none of the above.

Reading is a choice not must.
If you choose to respond it is also a choice not a must.

If it is too long to read, don't read it simple choices.

I think a complete redoing is also not the answer here. The ships are already out there and they have bonuses on them.

For the frigate ship class they are on the right path.

The idea is to not make all ships of New Eden combat ships, but also not take away the ability to do so. Also CCP should consider not making tons of roles - we have tech2 ships that have roles, which some of them cannot accomplish.

Give them a ship class bonus, like the Condor,
Caldari frigate class bonus:

Fit 2 bonus launchers with increased launcher damage and range, no turret slot, but keeps the third highslot

Bantam,
Caldari frigate class bonus:
2x turrets slot with increased mining yield and cpu bonus decrease in using mining laser, maybe a bonused shield tranport
+ 2 or 3 light drones

(Well do we really want to mine in a frigate that pops from incoming NPC fire is another thing to consider)

Heron,
Caldari frigate class bonus:
Bonus time for scanning the system, more defense abilities, little to no combat abilties
(It stands to reason, if the Heron needs a change at all)

And so on, you get the idea I guess and hope. Same goes for the cruiser class, battlecruiser class, battleship class, which will get a ship class bonus or simply inherit them from what they already have.

Some bonuses need to be changed in a way that will benefit the ships. From what I heard and read here about the Amarr cruiser class, they all suffer in firepower and other things in their shipclass.

If we take the new frigates into account as a baseline, CCP gave them a role but in a way took away a little freedom.

Roles are all good but keep in mind that we currenty have insanly expensive ships in all kinds of flavors and roles.

When you go looking at the other ships, give them ship class bonuses, not roles - we will give them roles over time.

Don't forget that only 50% of the hybrid turrets are done for now. Railguns still have to be tweaked and the ammunition except antimatter needs to be buffed and not decreased further at range.

The Moa with 5 250mm railguns, loaded with iron charges has the firepower of a frigate that forgot to fit weapons to it. And don't get me started on how you plan to get that damage applied with that tracking

Things to consider

You didn't read my first post, shame on you!

I really can't make much sense out of your wall of text, and i'm more inclined to agree with loius woo. One point I want to make is simply this a tech 1 ship isn't just some ship you fly. It's something you experiment with, and it doesn't cost a small fortune. It also give players a chance to decided what they want to fly. So by effecting making them the "generalist" how can a player decided he want's to fly an interceptor. This is probably the biggest problem with the teir system. By implementing it your force only certain ships to be good so there for the player only gets experience in that kind of ship until he gets to tech 2 in which case he's way outa his league, and if he does get to a tech 2 ship and realizes he doesn't like the combat style now he has to spend even more time to train up for another ship. For a frigate this typically means taking another 10 days of training to try out the next one.