EVE General Discussion

Jesus H. Christ, I support Hulkageddon. Always have. Always will. What is your F**KING Problem ?????

Get a life.

Funny you should mention that, since I'm one of the 'likers' and I also have been suicide ganked in a failfit Mackinaw (thanks to Hair during the ice interdiction - impressive dps btw o7, taught me a few things).

But anyway, after ragin/crying/laughing/going back to mining veldspar in a Rokh, I almost totally forgot about it until you said that. Cue the PTSD? Meh. I recognised it was my own fault (I knew the interdiction was underway and mined anyway /shrugs) and learned a few things in the process, no big deal for anyone involved besides a few laughs.

Not all 'gankees' are whiners, and most of us adapt.

Actually I would strongly urge you to read through the post mentioned, if you have also read "Mein Kampf"
They are both quite disturbing peices of literature for effectively the same reasons.

While I understand that the laws within Germany (and iirc a few other counteries like Switzerland and Austria) are very strict about the censorship of such subjects to help prevent it from happening again. Realistically burying the past as it if never happened is not a healthy way to deal with a problem.

I know that here in the UK use of such similarlies is often used to point out the severity of the racist and oppressive nature of something, with the Germany World War 2 Warcrimes being seen as frankly the worst in history, followed closely by Pol Pot and Joseph Stalin. These are names and events that are universally seen as something that shouldnever have happened.

The comparison between the to made here, unfortunately is disturbingly accurate. If the post by James was meant as a serious thing or a joke... I couldn't tell you, but the disturbing nature that he was willing to rant for 19 Posts (approx. 114,000 characters... seriously I've done dissertations shorter!) about how High-Sec Miners are the root cause of all of the problem in Null-Sec. It was just mind boggling bile that I had the unfortunate task of reading.

What was said did not break any EULA or Terms of Sevice. The comparison would only be concidered offensive or slander against the forum member in question, which given he effectively is calling for a "Cleansing of High-Sec Miners" (I kid you not, that was IN the damn post) ... the OP here has a point and right to make the comparison.

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As for this post itself, I don't think a counter-manifesto is a good idea.
I would brought up to believe in two things...

1 • Don't Get Mad... Get Even
2 • Strength in Numbers

Suicide Gankers are frankly the actions of individuals who gain a sick little pleasure from making someone defenceless cry.
Now I've never really been bullied, but part of that is I've always been willing to punch someone in the face if they deserved it - still on the odd occasion someone has decided to be a total **** to get a reaction out of me, gotta say something like sleeping with their Sister or Mom tends to **** them off and get more tears in return.

Obviously with EVE you could punch someone but chances are you miners are the lil nerdy kids who couldn't hurt a paper bag, respect that you're doing something you like ... still if you're an easy target the bullies will keep coming back for more. Still you can always get even with people in EVE by non-violent means.

Let's take for example something that happened to this character when I first started him. Was playing with a bunch of friends, we were all enjoying ourselves unilt another corp thought it would be fun to WarDec us... well mostly being the niave brave souls that we were, decided to fight back with well limited (as best) success. This was a case of, we couldn't really hurt the bullies cause well we lacked upper body strength.

So instead we had one of our guys infiltrate their corporation, a week or so later took everything they had. Then as an example our guy blamed it on someone else trusted in the corp, got a position of power and siezed ownership selling off their POSs and such for however felt like paying for them.

No Pew-Pew involved, we made a profit and to this day we have a deactivated alt sat there holding the corp as a symbol that anyone who fucks with us will get ripped apart. Never had issues with WarDecs after that. Still the point here is that there are many ways you can hurt people that are more devastating to them than PvP.

Also look at it like this... I would guess high-sec Miners make up a large percentage of the EVE player base.
It takes 5 Weeks (from no skills) to fly a Stealth Bomber
It takes 40 Stealth Bombers (of Level 4 skills) less than 1 minute to destroy a Carrier
It takes 200 Stealth Bombers less than 15 minutes to reinforce / destroy a POS

Goonswarm, Test Alliance and Pandemic Legion (Clusterfuck Coalition) are the guys behind continued campaigns against non Null-Sec Industrial Ships. It still happens without them, but on such a small scale it barely worth mentioning.

Now all of these guys own Moons across Low-Sec systems that hold very valueable Moon Materials. They might have a reasonable number of players together, but they DO NOT have enough players to constantly protect ALL of their POSs.

Deal with other Alliances keep them safe, but you Miners have signed no such deals. I would imagine should you all start working together, collectively going out in substancial fleets and attacking all of these POSs ... CFA might begin to ask people to stop Hulkageddon or such actions.

At the end of the day for them, this is about profit rather than some great cause to prevent bots (which Hulkageddon and Suicide Ganking was primarily used to help against originally) ... you start hurting their profits, they'll stop hurting yours.

Hell I would be happy to be a marked man and offer any miner who wishes to do such a thing to join my corporation. I'm not bothered by them either way, but I would just love to see what kind of numbers of miners would love to hurt those who keep hurting them. We can train you and give you all the intel you could possible need - if for nothing else than to watch CFA burn due to carebear miners. Oh god that would amuse me so.

It's not psychoanalysis, it's a wide-net ad-hominem attack that completely ignores all the evidence presented in order to try to fabricate a position that doesn't exist. Also known as a straw-man argument.

Your need to do this, over and over and over again in every thread you can possibly find on the subject for hours and hours a day, however, is an interesting piece of work to psychoanalyze. Most people looking would see a complete obsession with throwing attacks at an entity, that you yourself claim is more powerful than you, as a rampant inferiority complex. Likely sexual deviancy includes autoerotic asphyxiation and submissive fantasies. If we were to assume of course, like you have, that in-game actions are tantamount to real life motivators

Of course, I could instead just point out that the vast majority of the participants DO actually PVP in lowsec, nullsec and wormholes (in fact, all but ONE person on the leader-boards fits this description), but you have shown time and time again that you don't need any substance to your argument for you to feel it worthy to spew it forth onto these forums.

Since you were so helpful by ingame mail to provide mw with a link to the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbotsgesetz_1947

...the fact still fails.

"whoever in a printed work, on broadcasting or in any other media,
or whoever otherwise publicly in a matter that it makes it accessible to many people,
denies, grossly trivialises, approves of or tries to justify the N*** genocide or other N*** crimes against humanity."

Nobody here has denied, trivialised, approved, or justified any of that. Nobody is going to the gaol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaol

It specifically says "trivializing the genocide". No such thing has been done. You are the other side of the coin of the 'society protectors' like New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg who want to ban large sodas.

Sure James315 may be a nice guy in RL, his Eve Online views are obviously Very Extreme, and he was happy to express them publicly. The impact on the game has been enormous. Just saying.

If suicide gankers are cowardly (they give their lives for what they believe in!) for shooting ships that have no guns other than those harming the natural space environment, then how cowardly is it for space miners to shoot at asteroids which have even less in the way of defensive armament?

I mean I don't get the post.

"I find it offensive that they paint me as the kind of person who would quit because they no longer live in absolute safety, therefore I am quitting because they have taken steps to ensure that I no longer live in absolute safety."

As no doubt it was missed in my post... Wall of Text... Sorry forgot people don't read on the internet (god forbid)
What was said and since been mis-interpreted apparently is that what a single forum user did, NOT what Hulkageddon is.

I would strongly recommend anyone to actually sit down and read the Miner Manifesto 2 by James.
As has been noted, no doubt in RL he could be an awesome person; but the comparison between historical figures who we have public records of trying to incite people to extreme measures was not only disturbing but apt.

This is not to say in any way that the event as a whole is akin to the Holocaust, that frankly would be ridiculous.
It is simply the method in which a user put his point across that was extremely right-wing and very fanatical in it's approach.

Still you guys have fun arguing about the finer points of this until the cows come home.
Think I'll make another post calling Miners to Arms ... no doubt lost here in the UN style debate :-p