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The Mittani's Presumption of Safety

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Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#201 - 2012-05-31 04:10:25 UTC
Because goonswarm is totally the most dangerous corp to be in.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2012-05-31 05:20:03 UTC
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
Because goonswarm is totally the most dangerous corp to be in.


To be fair, if we **** up, someone tends to send out a notification on the Goonswarm Instant Message app and 5000+ people instantly know about it. And if we REALLY **** up, said Instant Message app involves people forming a posse to kick the everloving **** out of us to make us learn.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#203 - 2012-05-31 05:21:05 UTC
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
Because goonswarm is totally the most dangerous corp to be in.


DBRB fleets have a high suicide rate.
Samantha Utama
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#204 - 2012-05-31 05:22:14 UTC
You guys who are threatening to quit, you do realize that if you quit, your Isk/hr goes down to 0, right?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#205 - 2012-05-31 06:43:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
Because goonswarm is totally the most dangerous corp to be in.

DBRB fleets have a high suicide rate.

I... oh no.

Oh no, I remember it all now, the horrible jokes, the stories ahhhh~~~
Xython wrote:
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
Because goonswarm is totally the most dangerous corp to be in.


To be fair, if we **** up, someone tends to send out a notification on the Goonswarm Instant Message app and 5000+ people instantly know about it. And if we REALLY **** up, said Instant Message app involves people forming a posse to kick the everloving **** out of us to make us learn.

Like when someone hotdrops you because you weren't watching local or intel.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2012-05-31 07:47:50 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
seany1212 wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
nat longshot wrote:
Mittani's lucky they did not permaban his sry butt months ago. keep push ccp and beat it will happen.
But for now ill sit back and get a tub of popcorn and watch.

Mittani's times is comeing i can feel it. So is goons.

Wow. If you can't beat him in-game you are hoping that CCP will permaban him? Is this the kind of game you want to play?

Unfortunately there are becoming more of these players...

I thought it was a very good article representing the way ive viewed eve for a while and ive only been playing since 08, god knows how those who've been playing years before me view the game as now.

For those bleeting that suicide ganking is easy, its only easy because you make it so. As for the reprocusions i went from practically 0 security status to -4.2 for 2 hulks, a retriever and a pod in 0.5 and 0.6 spaces. I now can only go in 0.5 and below and if i dipped below -5 im shootable anywhere in space. I fail to see how that isnt just rewards. Then again there are people bleeting to ban others for not playing to their gamestyle... Roll

You should push to just ban all the goons. Heck the whole CFC, why not since you're at it.

I mean, threads have already been made on this subject, people will seriously repond to it. Of course goons will as well, because we all need our laughs, but that's the harsh world of the EVEO General Discussion forum.

AS a whole i dont have a problem with gonos your leader on the other hand i have a problem with drunk or not at fanfest he done wrong and got nailed for it but hes think he was thrown under a bus come on goons for your leader and his big mouth would you follow a moron like that in the real world hell no.

I was in the army if my CO made a order like that i would trun his butt in and hang him out to dry. But its a game and you think what he wanted done is ok your the fool allso then.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2012-05-31 14:23:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Darius Brinn
Ban Bindy wrote:

If ganking a miner is PVP then punching your grandma is a fistfight. Make all the excuses you want. It's not combat. It's a sucker punch. You like giving people sucker punches. That's who you are.


Although irrelevant to the thread, I must say that my old grandma could lift a pig of respectable frame under each arm. Leaving aside that punching her today would require a shovel and a map, nobody COULD punch her in her time.

A woman that could put a cow to sleep with a lighthearted slap past 60, she was.

Also, no, I don't like giving people sucker punches. BUT, when I share a game with other OPPONENTS, I'd rather "win". I want their resources in my wallet, or destroyed.

And this does not make me a terrible person, or a psycopath. We're playing a spaceships game where fun can be obtained by making other spaceships explode. So, as a result, spaceships are forced to explode.

That doesn't mean I'd steal your car in real life, or kick your toddler on the face, even if I could get away with it.

Because they are not playing a game with me, see?
Lexmana
#208 - 2012-05-31 14:37:37 UTC
nat longshot wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
seany1212 wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
nat longshot wrote:
Mittani's lucky they did not permaban his sry butt months ago. keep push ccp and beat it will happen.
But for now ill sit back and get a tub of popcorn and watch.

Mittani's times is comeing i can feel it. So is goons.

Wow. If you can't beat him in-game you are hoping that CCP will permaban him? Is this the kind of game you want to play?

Unfortunately there are becoming more of these players...

I thought it was a very good article representing the way ive viewed eve for a while and ive only been playing since 08, god knows how those who've been playing years before me view the game as now.

For those bleeting that suicide ganking is easy, its only easy because you make it so. As for the reprocusions i went from practically 0 security status to -4.2 for 2 hulks, a retriever and a pod in 0.5 and 0.6 spaces. I now can only go in 0.5 and below and if i dipped below -5 im shootable anywhere in space. I fail to see how that isnt just rewards. Then again there are people bleeting to ban others for not playing to their gamestyle... Roll

You should push to just ban all the goons. Heck the whole CFC, why not since you're at it.

I mean, threads have already been made on this subject, people will seriously repond to it. Of course goons will as well, because we all need our laughs, but that's the harsh world of the EVEO General Discussion forum.

AS a whole i dont have a problem with gonos your leader on the other hand i have a problem with drunk or not at fanfest he done wrong and got nailed for it but hes think he was thrown under a bus come on goons for your leader and his big mouth would you follow a moron like that in the real world hell no.

I was in the army if my CO made a order like that i would trun his butt in and hang him out to dry. But its a game and you think what he wanted done is ok your the fool allso then.

If you think as good as you write I can understand your frustration. Life is hard right? And EVE is hard. You may need help. And there was no order. Your CO is fine. I promise.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#209 - 2012-05-31 14:38:25 UTC
There's really not much point even asking a whiny Hulk pilot what their definition of PVP is - at the end of the day, no matter what words they choose to say it, the definition is going to be "something that doesn't let you shoot me".

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Dendrin Koljn
NecTech
#210 - 2012-05-31 15:34:04 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
There's really not much point even asking a whiny Hulk pilot what their definition of PVP is - at the end of the day, no matter what words they choose to say it, the definition is going to be "something that doesn't let you shoot me".



Whiny Hulk pilot here (well every now and again)... i shoot you or you shoot me..maybe the market interaction but as that can exist in a PvE enviroment then to me its just the shooty stuff.

as for the main thread.....I'm wondering...

1. Why does Mitt care about high sec ?....its only a small section of the universe and its only got the low end mins anyway.
2. Who gains from hulks being ganked ? at the end of the chain the Hulk BPO owners...so who owns them ?


The gank mechanic hasnt changed since ive been playing, if anything its become slighty more risky to the ganker...but with alts (which personally I would remove - also limit it to 1 account per person)...then the risk is still pretty small (as in the result expected is still almost certain)...and i dont expect it to change anytime soon.

I would like to see more/different consequences for this , but as a overall change not just hulk gank specific...ie...if you blow up a player in a NPC corp then no matter where you are your standing with that NPC corp+faction+agents should take a hit. But also players in NPC corps should take standing hits for shooting freindlies to that corp.

And the 'prize' is only 10M isk per hulk killed.....your gunna have to make sure you get a good drop to make it worth the time.
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#211 - 2012-05-31 15:37:33 UTC
Dendrin Koljn wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
There's really not much point even asking a whiny Hulk pilot what their definition of PVP is - at the end of the day, no matter what words they choose to say it, the definition is going to be "something that doesn't let you shoot me".



Whiny Hulk pilot here (well every now and again)... i shoot you or you shoot me..maybe the market interaction but as that can exist in a PvE enviroment then to me its just the shooty stuff.

as for the main thread.....I'm wondering...

1. Why does Mitt care about high sec ?....its only a small section of the universe and its only got the low end mins anyway.
2. Who gains from hulks being ganked ? at the end of the chain the Hulk BPO owners...so who owns them ?


The gank mechanic hasnt changed since ive been playing, if anything its become slighty more risky to the ganker...but with alts (which personally I would remove - also limit it to 1 account per person)...then the risk is still pretty small (as in the result expected is still almost certain)...and i dont expect it to change anytime soon.

I would like to see more/different consequences for this , but as a overall change not just hulk gank specific...ie...if you blow up a player in a NPC corp then no matter where you are your standing with that NPC corp+faction+agents should take a hit. But also players in NPC corps should take standing hits for shooting freindlies to that corp.

And the 'prize' is only 10M isk per hulk killed.....your gunna have to make sure you get a good drop to make it worth the time.


Actually, the people who profit are the ones who supply the materials for the Hulk BPO owners. Guess who that is?

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#212 - 2012-05-31 15:41:45 UTC
Dendrin Koljn wrote:
1. Why does Mitt care about high sec ?....its only a small section of the universe and its only got the low end mins anyway.
2. Who gains from hulks being ganked ? at the end of the chain the Hulk BPO owners...so who owns them ?


1. Take a look at the gnashing of teeth just from ANNOUNCING he was going to continue payouts. Making people explode with self-righteous rage is one of the conerstones of what makes Eve great. Burn Jita and Hulkageddon and other such things are just extensions of that.

2. Anyone who produces Hulk hulls, T2 strips, MLU's, and very rarely shield tank mods benefit directly, as does anyone who produces T1/T2 blasters, Magstabs, Catalyst hulls, etc. Gankers benefit because it's fun, we benefit because watching people rage is fun, non-stupid miners benefit due to less competition. Even the gankee might benefit if they decide to try to do something about the loss (tank the Hulk, mine in a different place, mine in a different ship, etc). The only true losers are the babies who insist they have some inherent right to mine in a very expensive full-yield-fit hull wherever they want with complete safety from any kind of threat.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Cutout Man
Doomheim
#213 - 2012-05-31 16:14:47 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Dendrin Koljn wrote:
1. Why does Mitt care about high sec ?....its only a small section of the universe and its only got the low end mins anyway.
2. Who gains from hulks being ganked ? at the end of the chain the Hulk BPO owners...so who owns them ?


1. Take a look at the gnashing of teeth just from ANNOUNCING he was going to continue payouts. Making people explode with self-righteous rage is one of the conerstones of what makes Eve great. Burn Jita and Hulkageddon and other such things are just extensions of that.

2. Anyone who produces Hulk hulls, T2 strips, MLU's, and very rarely shield tank mods benefit directly, as does anyone who produces T1/T2 blasters, Magstabs, Catalyst hulls, etc. Gankers benefit because it's fun, we benefit because watching people rage is fun, non-stupid miners benefit due to less competition. Even the gankee might benefit if they decide to try to do something about the loss (tank the Hulk, mine in a different place, mine in a different ship, etc). The only true losers are the babies who insist they have some inherent right to mine in a very expensive full-yield-fit hull wherever they want with complete safety from any kind of threat.

Who the **** are you kidding? http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/04/week-in-life-bottleneck.html
Vinn Kelsier
State War Academy
Caldari State
#214 - 2012-05-31 16:19:53 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
In his latest Ten Ton Hammer article, The Mittani writes about many players' entitlement to "opt out" of PvP. Some even believe that this game does allow you to "opt out" by living in hisec, where the game's tutorial taught them how to shoot an NPC and mine an asteroid. Many believe that suicide ganking is an exploit, that CONCORD exists to protect them from all harm, and that nonconsensual PvP does not have a place in hisec. Many seem to agree with this notion - "suicide ganks drive away new players," they say. Or "it's bad for subscriptions." Whatever the reason, one thing is clear - they wish to destroy the philosophy behind the design of EVE, that competition is not optional, and the niche of the MMO world where it reigns - the PvP-centric MMO.

The Mittani writes:
Quote:
It is undeniable: games as a whole are getting easier each year, with more handholding, simpler control schemes, extended tutorials, and a relentless drive to seize the money of even the most drooling incompetent. Simultaneously, games are getting more immersive and addictive, with the psychological feedback loops first seen in MUDs exploding into the MMO industry with Everquest and then being refined into their most destructive forms by both Blizzard and Zynga. What does a hobby with ever-increasing levels of addiction, ease, and immersion for its users create? A sense of entitlement - an entitlement that is a threat to every ‘hard’ game out there, but especially to EVE Online.


Despite CCP’s explicit marketing of EVE as a harsh universe full of mayhem and murder, despite Hulkageddons, despite the Great War, and despite the Burning of Jita, there is a silent, ignorant herd of players who genuinely believe that EVE is just like the other MMOs on the market - the PvP-optional, hand-holding MMOs who will pat you on the back, wipe away your tears, and give you a 30-second respawn with no consequences. When these people discover that EVE is not World of Warcraft (WoW), they rush to the forums and loudly bleat out their indignation and horror at encountering loss or danger.


Read on: http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/231736/


Hola

I could not "like" this more than once so I just repeated it FTW!

Vinn
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#215 - 2012-05-31 16:23:22 UTC
Cutout Man wrote:

Who the **** are you kidding? http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/04/week-in-life-bottleneck.html


Fine, for Mr. Pedant here, go ahead and add "anyone who supplies components to build any of the products I listed above". Yes, that includes Technetium holders (among many, many others). Congratulations, you've solved the puzzle!

We'd still do this even if there was 0 tech in Hulks, btw. Selling more Tech is a happy side benefit.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Calydarix Blackmoor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2012-05-31 16:31:43 UTC
Quote:
"Eventually, after you clowns have driven off enough of the sub base, the VP of Sony accounting might have a word with the mgmt level at CCP and suggest that the cancer within Eve be excised."



Well, given that EVE is about the ONLY MMO that is still growing after as many years as it has been around, and the fact that most of the new "theme-park" mmo's that embrace this entitlement philosophy are drying up and dying at an ever more alarming rate (just look at SWTOR) I would say I think you have it wrong as to which item is the "cancer"

There is a cancer alright and its trying to infect EVE online just like all the other MMO's out there. I for one hope it doesn't succeed.

EVE is the first MMO I have played that didn't feel like a carbon copy of the rest. Say no to WOW in space.

~C
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#217 - 2012-05-31 17:53:33 UTC
Calydarix Blackmoor wrote:
EVE is the first MMO I have played that didn't feel like a carbon copy of the rest. Say no to WOW in space.

But you can dress up your character...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#218 - 2012-05-31 18:16:55 UTC
Twulf wrote:
Hauling Hal wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Eventually, after you clowns have driven off enough of the sub base, the VP of Sony accounting might have a word with the mgmt level at CCP and suggest that the cancer within Eve be excised.



Because Sony has an awesome reputation at running MMOs and not losing thousands of customers or killing entire products because of stupid decisions at the executive level?


If you are talking about SWG then you should go read up on facts before you post again.
Sony had to change the game because Locus Arts who owns Star Wars rights wanted to bring in WoW like numbers and forced Sony to make the changes and the game died. Those are the facts but idiots like you just listened to what the masses said and took it for fact like normal instead of doing a little amount of research on your own.

Its not like we live in the information age or anything. Oh wait. lazy uninformed idiots like you are ruining this world with your nonsense.



SWG, MxO, V:SoH, EQ2, etc, etc
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#219 - 2012-05-31 19:08:30 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
No one has ever said they should be protected from ganking. They have said the consequences are not balanced.


This unbalanced consequence is only a mere illusion. We have:

1. No insurance insurance payout to suicide gankers.
2. Faction navy begins to chase down outlaws with -5.0 sec status as soon as they either board a ship in space or undock in a ship.
3. Concord's response time is consistent with a star system's sec status. If you mine in 0.8 space or higher, Concord will save you 80% of the time. The other 20% is when the gankers are determined enough to really kill you. In other words, you had to have pissed them off enough to make the expense of resources to gank you in that system worth it.
4. As soon as the gankers aggress anyone in high-sec, their ships become fair game to everyone in the system.
5. Anyone with -5.0 can be podded in high-sec. There are frigates out there that instalock. The Jaguar and Dramiel are well known for this as they are usually tackler ships.
6. Mercenaries can be hired to hunt and kill someone without having to actually place the bounty on this. This is why API-verified kill reports are important. You can use Eve-Kill.net as your number one source for verifying kill reports if you don't trust the in-game bounty system.
7. Contrary to popular belief, a well piloted and well fitted logistics ship can save a Hulk from an Alpha strike.
6. Most gankers are very disorganized. Many will fail to scan your ship's fittings before ganking and then realize that their T1-fitted Catalyst is unable to break your 30,000 overheated/fleet-boosted EHP tank.
8. Most gankers attack for profit when they see faction or officer mods fitted on your ship. Make yourself NOT worth the trouble and stick to T2 mods only.

As you can see, there are plenty of ways to counter gankers. I'm and both a constant survivor of ganks and I am also a ganker, so I have the experience and knowledge of both professions. It's not really that hard.

Again, this "unbalance consequence" as the carebears have pointed out is only an illusion imposed by the ignorant masses.

Adapt or Die
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#220 - 2012-05-31 19:13:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Haphorn
PS: The only reason the fuzzy wuzzy carebears are crying out bloody murder now is because they are just beginning to notice Eve Online's true harsh nature 9 YEARS after all this started. Eve Online is no different than the real world global market. Sure, corporate executives go to jail, but how many of them really go to jail while the rest work the system to their favor and get away with the rest? A lot.

ADAPT OR DIE

Adapt or Die