EVE General Discussion

One word: Blasters

I just want to point out some obvious circumstances for you that Gankers know but those miners that think they can still mine in a barge don’t.
1. Ganker collateral loss est. 1 mill loss at cost for destroyer not including mods - probably 4 mill for a max fitted catalyst.
2. Miner collateral loss est. 250 mill at cost for hulk not including mods, loss of ore - probably 300 + mods + ore + pod (because so many people are still AFK or not paying attention )
3. Miner collateral loss est. 150mil at cost for tier 3 battleship not including mods, loss of ore

DPS

3. Destroyer cat 1000 per volley - max fitted catalyst with great skills and great mods = ~650 dps on average
4. Battlecruiser Talos 5000 per volley - Talos average = ~1500 dps

Tank
1. Hulk EHP 20,000+ varies on skills and fits eg ..heavy armour plates and extended cargp holds will slow you down also warping, even if your aligned correctly. - Fitting a Hulk with tank midslots and maybe a rig or 2 gets nearer to 25,000 - skills make up a lot of this figure. Train fitting and EHP skills up :) Max skills and great mods can put a Hulk beyond any solo ganker ship (excess of 33,000 EHP) but this isn't easily achievable.

Time to destruction
Destroyer will destroy your Hulk in less than 4 minutes maybe 3 Minutes - CONCORD response time in a 0.5 security system is around 20 seconds, so that's how long they have. Not any minutes at all.
Battlecruiser trier 3 will destroy your Hulk in less than 2 minutes
2. “Logi support” Gank logi first 1 minute;
3. Gank Hulk second as above 2-4 minutes

Note any carebear that runs missions should realize you can’t tank this much DPS even if you’re NOT afk.
Other factors
Most of the time you can’t warp off because they fit warp scramblers. - which is why you should be passive aligned at all times, and active aligned if you smell a gank on DSCAN for instan warp out.
CONCORD will NOT get there in time, most of the time. - tank fitted Hulks can almost always last long enough against solo efforts for CONCORD to show up and violence them to death for you. Multiple pilot Gank squads you aren't going to beat anyway, so it doesn't matter.
They know where to find you - make them work for it. Sitting in a belt AFK 2 jumps from Jita is asking for a podding.
You don’t know they are coming! previous Ganker characters can sometimes be irrelevant and they create new characters each time, you haven’t been war dec’d so the likely hood of you seeing them in local is small. - DSCAN! look out for Catalysts, Taloses, Tornados and SCAN PROBES - set up your overview with a scanning tab showing ships and probes for the DSCAN 'use current overview settings' option and spam that mutha.

Suggestions
Don’t Mine! - in easily predictable places such as where you got ganked before, anywhere AFK, at the warp in point in a belt, where the map shows you there's been lots of ship kills lately etc...
Gank them before they Gank you “unlikely” - ECM boats can do a very good job of this - by 'ganking' their gank and locking them down helpless till the cops show up.
Form a PVP defence squad to shield the miner, but you need a few PVPers as the Ganker will bring more friends the larger your squad is. - might get some pretty entertaining fights out of this. This is a good thing.
Mine in a battleship, not practical because of the small cargo hold but it is mining, or use orca support or giant containers - Orcas make very attractive gank targets that get the attention of multiple member roaming gank squads. Be careful with them.
Mine in missions - yep
Mine in gravimetric sites - yep
Ninja Mine - use AFK miners or suspected botters as a shield / more attractive target.
Mine into a giant container with a disposable mining ship like an Osprey. - takes far too long to get anywhere. Use a Covetor, or even a Retriever if you're short on money or skills for proper mining ships
Mine in a T1 Mining barge with insurance but expect to get Ganked. - yep. The market manipulation of technetium and Hulk prices means they're not really economically viable for risky mining ops in belts.

Facts
These aren’t new facts, don’t fool yourself.
This is a war that miners cannot win as most characters mine alone in Hi sec, but you might not get seen for a while, there’s always a chance.
This isn’t your fault even a Ganker couldn’t save a Hulk against another Ganker.

Failure to assume responsibility for ones own personal safety is a large part of the problem. 'Entitlement' players who fail to grasp that ganking is an integral part of EvE whine the loudest and give the rest of the industrialists a bad name.

More
As I have never Ganked or been Ganked, please could Gankers/PVPers post their optimum Kill rate/ stats/DPS and fits to validate claims, I have only used estimates on DPS/time and EHP.
All stats that I have used are only ESTIMATES!!!

Ok no disrespect, but there are more kills on hulks than hulks that are saved by Concorde, and a single hulk might just get away some times, but chances are low, and the only time that I’ve personally seen and instant warp is while undocking from a station whilst your moving, not from a stand still.
The tank I posted was crap not good enough to with stand an attack and I have made no claims that it could, armour tank would be the worst fit, but some carebears claim to have 30,000 EHP, I can’t see how this is possible on a well tanked/ resistant tank and only a fool would just fit shield extenders and not hardeners.
Some corporations run mining ops, and it’s not always easy to get your squad out in time, not everyone mines alone, if it was possible then I’m sure the carebear players would be grateful if you could provide a fleet loot history with amounts minded in Hi-sec “ screen shot will do with characters names photo shopped out “ and details of a concorded Ganker during said operation.
Ultimately most miners can’t successfully survive a gank and haven’t had the experience of null sec and fleet warfare; they are just high sec miners, again I do NOT GANK so the whole Dps thing is irrelevant is fine, but numbers prove Hi sec miners can’t survive as more are killed than not.
For those Miners who want to prove how GOD like their abilities are to survive a Gank, single miner or mining op with two or more miners and evidence that they achieved this please post screenshots with characters names and the corporation that they mine for removed.
The mining community would be grateful for your expert wisdom.

This is why we call it griefing.

The mechanics in EVE are not balance designed. All mechanics in EVE favor dps to survivability.

They want us to lose ships. Get it?

1) CONCORD is not there to save you. It's there to punish your attackers.

2) 30k EHP is easy on a Hulk [Fit at the bottom]

3) A Hulk can be tanked to survive any economical gank (ganks that have a chance of turning a profit). Just have a Rokh repping it.

4) We have tried to provide wisdom, but as wisdom takes effort to impliment, we have been rebuffed. Angrily and Rudely by the mining community.


[Hulk, Tank Fit] 30k EHP, 33k with Orca Gang links

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Upgraded EM Ward Amplifier I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I



[Rokh, Healing Bat]

Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Co-Processor II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Literally everything he said is inaccurate, not just the numbers.

[Protip: If you're aligned, you warp instantly; Passive Align is a myth]

This is why we call it griefing.

The mechanics in EVE are not balance designed. All mechanics in EVE favor dps to survivability.

They want us to lose ships. Get it?