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Logistics on Killmails

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#21 - 2012-05-30 14:15:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
CCP Masterplan wrote:
You want logistics on killmails, huh? OK, how about we do it like this: For each victim, we list the logi pilots who were supposed to be helping him. But since he's now dead, they are obviously fail-logi pilots. That way you can see who all the bad ones are, and do all sorts of fancy killboard stats of the worst logi pilots in the game.
So, if logistics pilots want to get on killmails, it is only fair that when they screw-up, they appear on lossmails too, right? Twisted

That's great actually. So do that because it would be nice. List them at the very bottom with negative damage, I suppose.

(Actually it's because elite pvpers might feel less inclined to fly logi and that's great for people on the other side of that, heh heh)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mors Magne
Terra Incognita
#22 - 2012-05-30 14:46:05 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
You want logistics on killmails, huh? OK, how about we do it like this: For each victim, we list the logi pilots who were supposed to be helping him. But since he's now dead, they are obviously fail-logi pilots. That way you can see who all the bad ones are, and do all sorts of fancy killboard stats of the worst logi pilots in the game.
So, if logistics pilots want to get on killmails, it is only fair that when they screw-up, they appear on lossmails too, right? Twisted



Yes, that would certainly make flying logistics more interesting.

It could be hilarious actually.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#23 - 2012-05-30 14:55:48 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
You want logistics on killmails, huh? OK, how about we do it like this: For each victim, we list the logi pilots who were supposed to be helping him. But since he's now dead, they are obviously fail-logi pilots. That way you can see who all the bad ones are, and do all sorts of fancy killboard stats of the worst logi pilots in the game.
So, if logistics pilots want to get on killmails, it is only fair that when they screw-up, they appear on lossmails too, right? Twisted


Sounds like the consensus is that we Logi pilots would find that to be a-OK. We want our efforts, futile or otherwise, in battle to be reported on.

I'm always happy to see more info on KMs. Wouldn't mind off-grid boosters showing up. Maybe a breakdown of what weapon systems on each ship did what damage.

The announcer voice guy (cba to look up his name) from R&K suggested figuring out a way to see what refits occurred during the course of a fight.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#24 - 2012-05-30 15:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Morganta
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
How exactly would a Logistics ship be represented on a killmail?


welp if a 3rd party logi can pick up GCC in empire it shouldn't be that hard to put a zero dps addition to the KM
the mechanism is already there to support identifying logi who assist other players

the failure side is a little tough as the destruction of a ship does not indicate a failure of logi per se, perhaps if it's capital reps you might be able to call outright fail, but with logi in general there could be any reason and being on the loss mail would be a touch misleading.

perhaps if KMs has a supporting players subsection, for the jams, reps and non DPS support that in any way changed the prospects of the victim in the course of the fight
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2012-05-31 11:16:31 UTC
Morganta wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
How exactly would a Logistics ship be represented on a killmail?

...
the failure side is a little tough as the destruction of a ship does not indicate a failure of logi per se, perhaps if it's capital reps you might be able to call outright fail, but with logi in general there could be any reason and being on the loss mail would be a touch misleading.
...

In this case, I'd argue that a successful kill does not indicate any success of any supporting logis either. Just because they happened to be repping a guy who got a shot on the victim doesn't mean that they in any way contributed - it could just have been a one-sided gank with zero risk.
If you want to share in the successes, you must also be equally accountable for the losses.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2012-05-31 11:18:08 UTC
Does this need to be a binary choice? Why not change killmails so it shows which logi's repped who and for how much on each killmail. Maybe not that exact solution, but something similar.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#27 - 2012-05-31 11:23:43 UTC
Also security status and faction rep gain/loss for logi pilots in PvE.

And after two failexpansions it's funny to see people still have hopes for CCP to develop basic common sense based features for EVE while busy with Dust development.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-05-31 11:25:02 UTC
Remove killmails and problem solved.

There will be more dudes flying those instead of hunting KM's, and since logis in Eve are overpowered, pretty sure many of those F1 and dmg fans would fly them because e-peen

brb
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2012-05-31 11:30:14 UTC
Why not create a second killmail type report that the FC can produce at the end of a fleet that breaks down the contributions by each member? This dude repped these people for this total amount of repping, this person shot this many people for this amount of damage total, something like that?
Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#30 - 2012-05-31 11:30:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Durzel
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Morganta wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
How exactly would a Logistics ship be represented on a killmail?

...
the failure side is a little tough as the destruction of a ship does not indicate a failure of logi per se, perhaps if it's capital reps you might be able to call outright fail, but with logi in general there could be any reason and being on the loss mail would be a touch misleading.
...

In this case, I'd argue that a successful kill does not indicate any success of any supporting logis either. Just because they happened to be repping a guy who got a shot on the victim doesn't mean that they in any way contributed - it could just have been a one-sided gank with zero risk.
If you want to share in the successes, you must also be equally accountable for the losses.

Good point well made. You've tackled the elephant in the room that is "most people just want to whore on killmails while flying logistics" which is pretty much why this thread exists imo.

It's a shame really that the killmail system doesn't really take into consideration the passage of time properly. If 5 people shoot a Drake and don't kill it, and it escapes and regenerates its shield completely before dying again, why would the original 5 people be considered part of their death? The damage they had done had long since ceased to be a contributory factor towards their demise.

Likewise, a logi repping someone who didn't need reps to kill someone hasn't really contributed, have they?

It gets even more muddier when you consider the scenario where someone remote sensor boosting someone else enables that person to kill someone (locks faster, victim didn't escape in time as a result) when they otherwise would not have been able to....
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2012-05-31 12:59:27 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Why not create a second killmail type report that the FC can produce at the end of a fleet that breaks down the contributions by each member? This dude repped these people for this total amount of repping, this person shot this many people for this amount of damage total, something like that?

That's actually something we've been talking about internally. We probably can't produce these reports in realtime, but there could be some offline process that works over the logs later and generates a battle summary with this sort of info.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#32 - 2012-05-31 13:00:54 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Why not create a second killmail type report that the FC can produce at the end of a fleet that breaks down the contributions by each member? This dude repped these people for this total amount of repping, this person shot this many people for this amount of damage total, something like that?

That's actually something we've been talking about internally. We probably can't produce these reports in realtime, but there could be some offline process that works over the logs later and generates a battle summary with this sort of info.


Spectacularly cool idea.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Bruno Bummel
Overplayed Associates Ltd.
#33 - 2012-05-31 13:53:12 UTC
What about a Support-Mail?

Activating capture if a remote-buff is applied to someone either dealing or taking damage to/by another player. Capture happens on the receiver end to avoid abuse. Mail is generated 5min after the last remote-buff really did something based on if damage got dealt (including tackling) or taken.
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#34 - 2012-05-31 14:05:14 UTC
If I can take GCC for repping my corp mate that stay under -5 when they are not doing anything more 'wrong' then being -5 it seems that the system records something I do already.

Yet, I can shoot and pod them all day and that's fine cuz corp. Heaven forbid I rep them cuz GCC. Sigh.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#35 - 2012-05-31 14:18:25 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Why not create a second killmail type report that the FC can produce at the end of a fleet that breaks down the contributions by each member? This dude repped these people for this total amount of repping, this person shot this many people for this amount of damage total, something like that?

That's actually something we've been talking about internally. We probably can't produce these reports in realtime, but there could be some offline process that works over the logs later and generates a battle summary with this sort of info.



A battle summary would be a useful tool for fleet commanders and CEO's to find the weak points in their fleets and strategies. This would also be an excellent example of what Incarna would be good for. Rather than having to lay everything out in a spreadsheet format, one of the monitors could be used to display all aspects of any given engagement. It is sad that it could not be done in real time, perhaps having the info sent to a fleet commanders CQ, from where he/she could co-ordinate the battle as it progresses. Might make more people want to use CQ Blink

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-05-31 14:20:20 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Why not create a second killmail type report that the FC can produce at the end of a fleet that breaks down the contributions by each member? This dude repped these people for this total amount of repping, this person shot this many people for this amount of damage total, something like that?

That's actually something we've been talking about internally. We probably can't produce these reports in realtime, but there could be some offline process that works over the logs later and generates a battle summary with this sort of info.


One word: achievements.

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#37 - 2012-05-31 14:28:16 UTC
Why don't you just find everyone who was in the fleet(s) and on grid with the people on a killmail, and list them as "support" unless they specifically applied damage? I presume you already have some way of finding people in-fleet and on-grid since you do it for incursion payouts.

This would also make it painfully obvious when one side blobs the hell out of the other so badly that 90% of the fleet can't even lock the targets before they all die.

This might put an end to that off-grid booster nonsense, too :)
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-05-31 16:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Why not create a second killmail type report that the FC can produce at the end of a fleet that breaks down the contributions by each member? This dude repped these people for this total amount of repping, this person shot this many people for this amount of damage total, something like that?

That's actually something we've been talking about internally. We probably can't produce these reports in realtime, but there could be some offline process that works over the logs later and generates a battle summary with this sort of info.


yes please. I flew nothing but logi in pcp for 2 years. For a while i fit a gun to get on kill mails, after about 6 kill mails i wanted to ue all my high slots, so i had to say goodbye to my kill rating ever going up

edit:an idea. why not have a K/D/A instead of just K/D?

If you did something, anything, you get an assist point. simple?

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-05-31 16:13:33 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Why not create a second killmail type report that the FC can produce at the end of a fleet that breaks down the contributions by each member? This dude repped these people for this total amount of repping, this person shot this many people for this amount of damage total, something like that?

That's actually something we've been talking about internally. We probably can't produce these reports in realtime, but there could be some offline process that works over the logs later and generates a battle summary with this sort of info.



DMG meter but wait, we already had enough tidi/lag addition with new inventory Lol

More awesome ideas to not train/fly logistics, yes please Lol

brb
Hemmo Paskiainen
#40 - 2012-05-31 16:14:07 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Why not create a second killmail type report that the FC can produce at the end of a fleet that breaks down the contributions by each member? This dude repped these people for this total amount of repping, this person shot this many people for this amount of damage total, something like that?

That's actually something we've been talking about internally. We probably can't produce these reports in realtime, but there could be some offline process that works over the logs later and generates a battle summary with this sort of info.


automaticly generated battle reports for fights over 30 vs 30 would be cool, doesnt rly matter if it takes 2 hours to genarate this

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
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