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Warning to carebears
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Not Amused Responsible
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-05-31 09:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Not Amused Responsible
I just want to point out some obvious circumstances for you that Gankers know but those miners that think they can still mine in a barge don’t.
1. Ganker collateral loss est. 1 mill loss at cost for destroyer not including mods
2. Miner collateral loss est. 250 mill at cost for hulk not including mods, loss of ore
3. Miner collateral loss est. 150mil at cost for tier 3 battleship not including mods, loss of ore

DPS

3. Destroyer cat 1000 per volley
4. Battlecruiser Talos 5000 per volley

Tank
1. Hulk EHP 20,000+ varies on skills and fits eg ..heavy armour plates and extended cargp holds will slow you down also warping, even if your aligned correctly.

Time to destruction
Destroyer will destroy your Hulk in less than 4 minutes maybe 3 Minutes
Battlecruiser trier 3 will destroy your Hulk in less than 2 minutes
2. “Logi support” Gank logi first 1 minute;
3. Gank Hulk second as above 2-4 minutes

Note any carebear that runs missions should realize you can’t tank this much DPS even if you’re NOT afk.
Other factors
Most of the time you can’t warp off because they fit warp scramblers.
CONCORD will NOT get there in time, most of the time.
They know where to find you
You don’t know they are coming! previous Ganker characters can sometimes be irrelevant and they create new characters each time, you haven’t been war dec’d so the likely hood of you seeing them in local is small.

Suggestions
Don’t Mine!
Gank them before they Gank you “unlikely”
Form a PVP defence squad to shield the miner, but you need a few PVPers as the Ganker will bring more friends the larger your squad is.
Mine in a battleship, not practical because of the small cargo hold but it is mining, or use orca support or giant containers
Mine in missions
Mine in gravimetric sites
Ninja Mine
Mine into a giant container with a disposable mining ship like an Osprey.
Mine in a T1 Mining barge with insurance but expect to get Ganked.

Facts
These aren’t new facts, don’t fool yourself.
This is a war that miners cannot win as most characters mine alone in Hi sec, but you might not get seen for a while, there’s always a chance.
This isn’t your fault even a Ganker couldn’t save a Hulk against another Ganker.

More
As I have never Ganked or been Ganked, please could Gankers/PVPers post their optimum Kill rate/ stats/DPS and fits to validate claims, I have only used estimates on DPS/time and EHP.
All stats that I have used are only ESTIMATES!!!
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-05-31 09:17:55 UTC
Your numbers are terribly inaccurate
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-05-31 09:20:03 UTC
ModeratedToSilence wrote:
Your numbers are terribly inaccurate

HUGELY inaccurate...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#4 - 2012-05-31 09:22:34 UTC
Not Amused Responsible wrote:

DPS
4. Destroyer cat 1000+dps or Damage per second!
5. Battlecruiser Talos 5000+dps or Damage per second!


I suspect you meant Damage per Volley, not per second.
Not Amused Responsible
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-05-31 09:24:03 UTC
Ten Bulls wrote:
Not Amused Responsible wrote:

DPS
4. Destroyer cat 1000+dps or Damage per second!
5. Battlecruiser Talos 5000+dps or Damage per second!


I suspect you meant Damage per Volley, not per second.



Yes your very right thanks
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#6 - 2012-05-31 09:24:33 UTC
Can someone tell me how to fit a Catalyst for 1k+ dps plox?

Thats a better ratter than a battleship due to such a small sig, and on par with my carriers DPS output.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-05-31 09:25:07 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Can someone tell me how to fit a Catalyst for 1k+ dps plox?

Thats a better ratter than a battleship due to such a small sig, and on par with my carriers DPS output.


One word: Blasters

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#8 - 2012-05-31 09:25:45 UTC
Not Amused Responsible wrote:

Suggestions
Don’t Mine!



I love that oneLol
Yolanta Geezenstack
GWA Corp
#9 - 2012-05-31 09:27:21 UTC
Not Amused Responsible wrote:
As I have never Ganked or been Ganked, please could Gankers/PVPers post their optimum Kill rate/ stats/DPS and fits to validate claims, I have only used estimates on DPS/time and EHP. All stats that I have used are only ESTIMATES!!!


= I lack knowledge but that doesn't prevent me from posting anyway. Shocked

I just got a mining barge a couple of days ago. My secret plan is: With the never-ending Hulkageddon I must be able to make a fortune with mining! Twisted
Ishihiro tanaka
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-05-31 09:33:44 UTC
DPS is completely irrelevant. As soon as a ganker shoots his guns, he'll be jammed, neuted, webbed and scrammed by concord by the time his second round is loaded and ready to be fired.

So, what to do? Simple, get a ship with the highest Alpha (first-strike) you can fit. No tank, no fancy modules, just alpha increasing mods, guns and ammo. A catalyst usually flies with a full rack of guns with only 1 or 2 rounds of ammo loaded, mids usually empty save a sensor booster and lows are all gyrostabilizers and tracking enhancers. Hell, even the rigs, if fitted, will be to improve damage.

Lock, fire your guns, die in a fire and laugh at the expensive tanked exhumer that just died, costing you almost no money.

As long as the Alpha (first-strike) is enough, even logistic backup won't help you. Yes, increasing your EHP and resists will make for the gankers to need to team up to be able to beat said exhumer.

For 0.0 or low-sec without concord, all the above simply doesn't apply as the ganker doesn't get shot by Concord and will come with a completely different setup.

Proud recruiter for the Goonswarm Federation. We have space for rent, contact me ingame! Supers for sale via the trusted third-party service of TheMittani. Dozens of satisfied customers bought or sold their super, join their ranks. Convo me!
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#11 - 2012-05-31 09:40:56 UTC
2 minutes? Is it happy hour at the donut stand?

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Not Amused Responsible
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-05-31 09:58:13 UTC
Ishihiro tanaka wrote:
DPS is completely irrelevant. As soon as a ganker shoots his guns, he'll be jammed, neuted, webbed and scrammed by concord by the time his second round is loaded and ready to be fired.

So, what to do? Simple, get a ship with the highest Alpha (first-strike) you can fit. No tank, no fancy modules, just alpha increasing mods, guns and ammo. A catalyst usually flies with a full rack of guns with only 1 or 2 rounds of ammo loaded, mids usually empty save a sensor booster and lows are all gyrostabilizers and tracking enhancers. Hell, even the rigs, if fitted, will be to improve damage.

Lock, fire your guns, die in a fire and laugh at the expensive tanked exhumer that just died, costing you almost no money.

As long as the Alpha (first-strike) is enough, even logistic backup won't help you. Yes, increasing your EHP and resists will make for the gankers to need to team up to be able to beat said exhumer.

For 0.0 or low-sec without concord, all the above simply doesn't apply as the ganker doesn't get shot by Concord and will come with a completely different setup.



All too true
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-05-31 10:04:13 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
ModeratedToSilence wrote:
Your numbers are terribly inaccurate

HUGELY inaccurate...


Yes sorry for that.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#14 - 2012-05-31 10:05:31 UTC
Virgil Travis wrote:
2 minutes? Is it happy hour at the donut stand?
Good news, everyone: OP has proven that it is impossible to suicide-gank hulks. Now everyone can go back to whatever they were doing. Lol
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2012-05-31 10:14:35 UTC
Quote:
Time to destruction
Destroyer will destroy your Hulk in less than 4 minutes maybe 3 Minutes
Battlecruiser trier 3 will destroy your Hulk in less than 2 minutes
2. “Logi support” Gank logi first 1 minute;
3. Gank Hulk second as above 2-4 minutes


So suicide ganking IS impossible....who would have known...

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Not Amused Responsible
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-05-31 10:17:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:
2 minutes? Is it happy hour at the donut stand?
Good news, everyone: OP has proven that it is impossible to suicide-gank hulks. Now everyone can go back to whatever they were doing. Lol


Short sighted, i get told by carebears all the time that they can achive this, i hope that this post reaches these carebears.
Cody Zamorah
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-05-31 10:22:05 UTC
Not Amused Responsible wrote:
Battlecruiser Talos 5000 per volley


Train Tornado then, better alpha.
Jamie Dallocort
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-05-31 10:29:10 UTC
lol Good advice.

A lot of people are still getting away with mining. I know a group (one is a RL friend) who are still using hulks ect because they are well protected and mining tactically - Im not going to mention where or who for obvious reasons...but I am trying to get a few isk off him for keeping it disclosed haha...im an awesome friend aint I? haha

I think they are doing it more in defiance though and try and use the miniing as a lure and excuse to kill Pro goons ect...which so far is working. I'll see if he can send me a screen shot of people raging in local because they keep failing to get the kills lol.

If your desperate to mine, then I agree...have protection. Im not mega skilled in this area so cannot comment much. if you simply hate this anti mining phase, just use them as bait and gank the gankers.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#19 - 2012-05-31 10:42:43 UTC
Ishihiro tanaka wrote:
DPS is completely irrelevant. As soon as a ganker shoots his guns, he'll be jammed, neuted, webbed and scrammed by concord by the time his second round is loaded and ready to be fired.

So, what to do? Simple, get a ship with the highest Alpha (first-strike) you can fit. No tank, no fancy modules, just alpha increasing mods, guns and ammo. A catalyst usually flies with a full rack of guns with only 1 or 2 rounds of ammo loaded, mids usually empty save a sensor booster and lows are all gyrostabilizers and tracking enhancers. Hell, even the rigs, if fitted, will be to improve damage.

Lock, fire your guns, die in a fire and laugh at the expensive tanked exhumer that just died, costing you almost no money.

As long as the Alpha (first-strike) is enough, even logistic backup won't help you. Yes, increasing your EHP and resists will make for the gankers to need to team up to be able to beat said exhumer.

For 0.0 or low-sec without concord, all the above simply doesn't apply as the ganker doesn't get shot by Concord and will come with a completely different setup.


Pretty sure you meant Magnetic Field Stabilizers ... yeah?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#20 - 2012-05-31 11:05:53 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
ModeratedToSilence wrote:
Your numbers are terribly inaccurate

HUGELY inaccurate...


Literally everything he said is inaccurate, not just the numbers.

[Protip: If you're aligned, you warp instantly; Passive Align is a myth]

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
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