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Artillery cannons on large POS in C1
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Arboledam
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-05-27 21:19:02 UTC
POS is a large Caldari dickstar with insane ECM but I'm anchoring (but not onlining) lots of small and medium projectile batteries for use as the need arises. I have gunners in the corp so if we want to switch from just being a dickstar to shooting down combatants, we will be able to.

Since it's a C1 wormhole, blobs of sub-BS sized ships are most likely. A hastily erected POS could build some battleships as well.

I'm intending to mix up small and medium artillery batteries. Large makes no sense in C1, right?

So I'm trying to decide between artillery batteries and auto cannon batteries. I'll get some small and medium of each. And then I'm trying to decide whether to stock these with 1.6 ranged ammo, 1.0 ranged ammo, or 0.6 ranged ammo.

My thought was:

Medium artilleries with 1.0 ranged ammo. This provides optimal 280 km.
Small artilleries with 1.0 ranged ammo. This provides optimal 187.5 km.

Am I overlooking the tracking speed superiority of auto cannons? If I did auto cannons would it be desirable to use 1.6 ranged ammo and sensor dampeners to pull the fast ships in closer?
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#2 - 2012-05-27 22:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Large artillery won't easily hit battleships aslong as they have a reasonable amount of transversal - doesn't take much speed - so anything smaller that you can get into a C1 won't be troubled by them at all tho you might have a bit of luck alphaing cruisers if they are heavily webbed tho... maybe.

It won't make much odds what batteries you use tho - against sub-caps jam out the loggies and then scram, web and shoot one of the loggies and it will go down eventually and then its a case of killing them one after another until they are reduced in numbers/logistics they have to warp.

Both small and medium guns have pretty pitiful dps tho i.e. unless I'm doing something wrong - small artillery battery with no tower bonus and RF EMP loaded:

20.7 + 4.6 + 2.3 = 27.6
27.6 x 44 = 1214.4 (volley)
1214.4 / 15.75 = 77.1047 (dps)


EDIT: Sensor damps on a POS are generally a complete waste of time - the odd ship thats being damped is just going to either wait it out or re-warp if possible in most cases - if they are in a proper FC'd fleet they will just work as a pack and individual ships being jammed/neuted/damped will just stick with the pack, get energy xfer/projected ECCM, warp out or wait it out, etc. rather than come in closer/split from the pack.

EDIT2: I'd probably go with a mix of small artillery so you have the option of putting dps on kiting tier3s, etc. and some medium autocannons with high damage ammo incase you need to kill anything a bit more tanky that comes in close.

EDIT3: I had a play with putting long range ammo in autocannons btw and IIRC you get the same pitiful dps as artillery with high damage ammo but still don't have the range of arty so its probably not worth using.
Jajas Helper
#3 - 2012-05-28 01:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jajas Helper
Pos guns are not effected by ammo stats- they only take damamage amps and base damage into account-> always load the highest damage ammo in posguns.

Inferno do _stuff _with _stuff _to imitate the _stuff _you could do faster with the old stuff

-stuff-
Arboledam
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-05-28 02:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Arboledam
Well that's massively helpful to know! What do you mean by "damage amps"? I assume the base damage you're referring to is 20HP for a Nuclear L, for example. Of course I wouldn't use nuclear because from what you're saying I'd only use EMP, Phased Plasma, and Fusion. But that is the base multiplier you're referring to right?
Ned Black
Driders
#5 - 2012-05-29 10:27:54 UTC
Jajas Helper wrote:
Pos guns are not effected by ammo stats- they only take damamage amps and base damage into account-> always load the highest damage ammo in posguns.


Actually... according to my tests POS guns are affected by ammo stats.

I did a test by placing a noob ship at a range that was far outside the calculated optimal/falloff for a gun with short range ammo but well within range when using long range ammo. I fired X amount of shots with the short range ammo gun and hit zippo. I then switched to the long range ammo gun fired once... then I had to go replace my noobship before shooting again... at which point the second noob ship blew up as well... So yes, range must be affected by the ammo or that ship was the luckiest SOB while I fired a number of shots with the short range ammo.

As for range the debate have been if it is from the tower center or the mod itself. I tried with a 150km range module (disruptor). And if the target was 160km away from the POS but within the 150km range of the mod it worked just fine. As soon as he was outside the 150km mark of the mod he was home free... But lets try it the other way around. So the guy went to the other side of the pos at 140km from the POS center but outside the 150km range of the module.. result... module could not affect him since he was out of range even if he was within the 150km mark of the tower itself.

So based on my own observations I would say that ammo affects range and at least targeting is based on the position of the gun.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#6 - 2012-05-29 10:49:46 UTC
^^ When I asked a CCP guy about it on SISI couple of years ago or so he said the pos guns were affected by ammo stats - but he also said POSes in a wormhole were affected by any wormhole system effects - which they aren't - so not sure what to believe. May have to do some tests of my own.

Keep in mind when testing that the range component of chance to hit is:

((max(0, Range To Target - Turret Optimal Range))/Turret Falloff)^2) so you still have a small chance to hit to 2x falloff + optimal.

Be aware that shooting a ship that belongs to your corp with your POS can result for some reason in the POS sometimes (but not always) becoming agressed to corp for 15 minutes. Not sure whats going on there but can result in accidentally popped ships if your not careful. Also seems that sometimes (but again not always) if someone thats not in corp but has good standings set takes say a bookmark from a corp member's can will also be shot by POS when normally they won't.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#7 - 2012-05-29 14:17:39 UTC
Should clarify regarding damps - I'm of the opinion just chucking a small number on your POS either to leave in auto mode or to try and make the odd ship come in closer isn't very useful but as an acquaintance rightly pointed out with pos gunners online or a large number of them on your POS you can disrupt the efficency of which hostile logistics can work and/or put people off attacking in the first place. So throwing them on as an aside = not very useful, putting them on as part of a thought out tactic can be very effective.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#8 - 2012-05-31 01:28:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Trinkets friend
My opinion, and I may of course be wrong despite having tested this myself with my corp because this is VE-O forums and everyone's an expert, is that if you live in a Black Hole effect wormhole of ANY size, yur ultimate deathstar setup is a large Gallente Dampstar with an ungodly amount of damps, a couple of webs, ECM's, and medium blasters.

For a start, the Black Hole effect gimps the lock range of ships. Secondly, damps on a POS are cheap to fit, you can go buck wild with them. 40, 50 of them, I'm not kidding. With this many, you can knock down the lock range and scan res of a large fleet to basically cactus poop (10km @ 50mm res for everybody!). They will have to form a terrible ball of frotting for RR and Logi. You then get a dozen bombers and bomb the bejeesus out of them, while your POS gunners jam up the logistics and lay waste with the horrendous DPS of a bunch of blasters. Remember to pack ammo!

edit: oh, and you can damp the hell out of things so badly that they can't actually lock the stick to shoot it.

Job done.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Bernie Nator
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#9 - 2012-05-31 02:08:17 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
My opinion, and I may of course be wrong despite having tested this myself with my corp because this is VE-O forums and everyone's an expert, is that if you live in a Black Hole effect wormhole of ANY size, yur ultimate deathstar setup is a large Gallente Dampstar with an ungodly amount of damps, a couple of webs, ECM's, and medium blasters.

For a start, the Black Hole effect gimps the lock range of ships. Secondly, damps on a POS are cheap to fit, you can go buck wild with them. 40, 50 of them, I'm not kidding. With this many, you can knock down the lock range and scan res of a large fleet to basically cactus poop (10km @ 50mm res for everybody!). They will have to form a terrible ball of frotting for RR and Logi. You then get a dozen bombers and bomb the bejeesus out of them, while your POS gunners jam up the logistics and lay waste with the horrendous DPS of a bunch of blasters. Remember to pack ammo!

edit: oh, and you can damp the hell out of things so badly that they can't actually lock the stick to shoot it.

Job done.


Just remember, if you do that, spread everything out. So smartbombs aren't an issue.
QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
#10 - 2012-05-31 04:54:09 UTC
Trinkets you are confusing black holes with mags. Mags are the ones that reduce your targeting range. Black holes reduce optimal range and missile flight time... or speed forget with on that one.

In black holes its tracking disruptors.