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[Proposal] License to Jam

Author
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
#21 - 2012-05-30 21:21:29 UTC
Amber Katelo wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas?

Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form.


LMFAO Please! Drake provide intelligent reasoning. Pigs will fly, Hell will freeze, The Pope will renounce religion and become the worlds leading biology scientist bringing new and great advances in the theory of evolution... Anything else and everything else WILL happen before this guy gets some intelligence and can actually give good logical constructive reason to his views. I mean just check a few of the other hot threads atm and you will realize this.

Now as to your idea, will this not in fact just further encourage ganking? Rich players with money to throw away not even having to worry about concord if they Jam a defenseless ship. I really don't think it will help us miners much, only be exploited by those we already have problems with. I can see it would allow miners to jam military ships in the hope they can get their hard earned haul out before they are Locked, Scrammed and Popped. But i really don't feel it would end up working out like that.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-05-30 21:22:00 UTC
Amber Katelo wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Ooh! I can probe out a mission bear, wait till he's pointed by rats and just jam him till the rats pop him? Big smile

Or until he warps off, yes. And yes, this actually makes hi-sec less safe.


*Facepalm*Roll

That went right over your head didn't it?

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Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-05-30 21:23:36 UTC
Koreli Stelios wrote:
Amber Katelo wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas?

Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form.


LMFAO Please! Drake provide intelligent reasoning. Pigs will fly, Hell will freeze, The Pope will renounce religion and become the worlds leading biology scientist bringing new and great advances in the theory of evolution... Anything else and everything else WILL happen before this guy gets some intelligence and can actually give good logical constructive reason to his views. I mean just check a few of the other hot threads atm and you will realize this.

Now as to your idea, will this not in fact just further encourage ganking? Rich players with money to throw away not even having to worry about concord if they Jam a defenseless ship. I really don't think it will help us miners much, only be exploited by those we already have problems with. I can see it would allow miners to jam military ships in the hope they can get their hard earned haul out before they are Locked, Scrammed and Popped. But i really don't feel it would end up working out like that.


I would be more than happy to introduce to you why this is bad...except youd post a wall of text crying over why I stole your salvage....blew up your multi-billion ISK mission ship...and left laughing with your stuff.

So no..not going there.

Go mission in any market hubs and be paitent and you'll see why my little nooblet.

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Amber Katelo
#24 - 2012-05-30 21:24:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Amber Katelo
Drake Draconis wrote:

You know not what you do.... I would back off while you still have a chance.

The insult was deliberately absurd. I know he's certainly not a WoWtard, I simply acted correspondingly to that part of his message. I'd be happy to discuss whether it's bad or good to create a new mechanic that leads to aggression. I'd love to discuss the problems with a license to jam, such as the issues with the current ECM system. But no one has gone there.

I shoot first.

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-05-30 21:27:05 UTC
Amber Katelo wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:

You know not what you do.... I would back off while you still have a chance.

The insult was deliberately absurd. I know he's certainly not a WoWtard, I simply acted with correspondingly to that part of his message. I'd be happy to discuss whether it's bad or good to create a new mechanic that leads to aggression. I'd love to discuss the problems with a license to jam, such as the issues with the current ECM system. But no one has gone there.


*facepalm*

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Amber Katelo
#26 - 2012-05-30 21:31:44 UTC
Koreli Stelios wrote:
Amber Katelo wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas?

Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form.


LMFAO Please! Drake provide intelligent reasoning. Pigs will fly, Hell will freeze, The Pope will renounce religion and become the worlds leading biology scientist bringing new and great advances in the theory of evolution... Anything else and everything else WILL happen before this guy gets some intelligence and can actually give good logical constructive reason to his views. I mean just check a few of the other hot threads atm and you will realize this.

Now as to your idea, will this not in fact just further encourage ganking? Rich players with money to throw away not even having to worry about concord if they Jam a defenseless ship. I really don't think it will help us miners much, only be exploited by those we already have problems with. I can see it would allow miners to jam military ships in the hope they can get their hard earned haul out before they are Locked, Scrammed and Popped. But i really don't feel it would end up working out like that.

I expect it would generate quite a few situations like can flipping does today, with less sting, because firing up ECM is an aggressive act. I don't think it would benefit solo miners much at all, but if those solo miners paid for mercenaries who provide a get-outta-dodge belt patrol, that could be interesting. You'd even get to check out the bona fides of the merc corp, because their FC would have to carry the license to be of use.

I shoot first.

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-05-30 21:40:14 UTC
Amber Katelo wrote:
Koreli Stelios wrote:
Amber Katelo wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas?

Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form.


LMFAO Please! Drake provide intelligent reasoning. Pigs will fly, Hell will freeze, The Pope will renounce religion and become the worlds leading biology scientist bringing new and great advances in the theory of evolution... Anything else and everything else WILL happen before this guy gets some intelligence and can actually give good logical constructive reason to his views. I mean just check a few of the other hot threads atm and you will realize this.

Now as to your idea, will this not in fact just further encourage ganking? Rich players with money to throw away not even having to worry about concord if they Jam a defenseless ship. I really don't think it will help us miners much, only be exploited by those we already have problems with. I can see it would allow miners to jam military ships in the hope they can get their hard earned haul out before they are Locked, Scrammed and Popped. But i really don't feel it would end up working out like that.

I expect it would generate quite a few situations like can flipping does today, with less sting, because firing up ECM is an aggressive act. I don't think it would benefit solo miners much at all, but if those solo miners paid for mercenaries who provide a get-outta-dodge belt patrol, that could be interesting. You'd even get to check out the bona fides of the merc corp, because their FC would have to carry the license to be of use.


I suspect your just bitter over 1 too many encounters with a Falcon.

Classic ECM whine post.

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Amber Katelo
#28 - 2012-05-30 22:03:31 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Amber Katelo wrote:
Koreli Stelios wrote:
Amber Katelo wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas?

Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form.


LMFAO Please! Drake provide intelligent reasoning. Pigs will fly, Hell will freeze, The Pope will renounce religion and become the worlds leading biology scientist bringing new and great advances in the theory of evolution... Anything else and everything else WILL happen before this guy gets some intelligence and can actually give good logical constructive reason to his views. I mean just check a few of the other hot threads atm and you will realize this.

Now as to your idea, will this not in fact just further encourage ganking? Rich players with money to throw away not even having to worry about concord if they Jam a defenseless ship. I really don't think it will help us miners much, only be exploited by those we already have problems with. I can see it would allow miners to jam military ships in the hope they can get their hard earned haul out before they are Locked, Scrammed and Popped. But i really don't feel it would end up working out like that.

I expect it would generate quite a few situations like can flipping does today, with less sting, because firing up ECM is an aggressive act. I don't think it would benefit solo miners much at all, but if those solo miners paid for mercenaries who provide a get-outta-dodge belt patrol, that could be interesting. You'd even get to check out the bona fides of the merc corp, because their FC would have to carry the license to be of use.


I suspect your just bitter over 1 too many encounters with a Falcon.

Classic ECM whine post.

Not whining about ECM, I'm saying give us a way to do it in Hi-sec without a wardec and without getting Concorded. I guess the real aim is at nerfing Concord, not all the way, just a little bit.

I shoot first.

Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-05-30 22:27:54 UTC
Amber Katelo wrote:
Koreli Stelios wrote:
Amber Katelo wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
What is with the massive numbers of npc alts coming up with insane ideas?

Please explain why this is insane. Otherwise you're just blathering in electronic form.


LMFAO Please! Drake provide intelligent reasoning. Pigs will fly, Hell will freeze, The Pope will renounce religion and become the worlds leading biology scientist bringing new and great advances in the theory of evolution... Anything else and everything else WILL happen before this guy gets some intelligence and can actually give good logical constructive reason to his views. I mean just check a few of the other hot threads atm and you will realize this.

Now as to your idea, will this not in fact just further encourage ganking? Rich players with money to throw away not even having to worry about concord if they Jam a defenseless ship. I really don't think it will help us miners much, only be exploited by those we already have problems with. I can see it would allow miners to jam military ships in the hope they can get their hard earned haul out before they are Locked, Scrammed and Popped. But i really don't feel it would end up working out like that.

I expect it would generate quite a few situations like can flipping does today, with less sting, because firing up ECM is an aggressive act. I don't think it would benefit solo miners much at all, but if those solo miners paid for mercenaries who provide a get-outta-dodge belt patrol, that could be interesting. You'd even get to check out the bona fides of the merc corp, because their FC would have to carry the license to be of use.

I've got to agree with Koreli, here. I think this would be slanted too far in favor of griefers and gankers. You'd have to charge a high fee to make it a worthwhile ISK sink and if it costs more than miner earns in an hour or so then it's too expensive to be worth it for the miner, but still an easy expense for a ganker.

Aegis destroyers on the other hand...: see sig.

Tactical destroyers... I'll take a dozen Gallente, please.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2012-05-30 22:40:39 UTC
Amber Katelo wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Ooh! I can probe out a mission bear, wait till he's pointed by rats and just jam him till the rats pop him? Big smile

Or until he warps off, yes. And yes, this actually makes hi-sec less safe.


How can he warp out if he's tackled by the rats? I can just jam him and go AFK, and he's stuck till downtime.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-05-30 22:42:39 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Amber Katelo wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Ooh! I can probe out a mission bear, wait till he's pointed by rats and just jam him till the rats pop him? Big smile

Or until he warps off, yes. And yes, this actually makes hi-sec less safe.


How can he warp out if he's tackled by the rats? I can just jam him and go AFK, and he's stuck till downtime.


Note to self - Danika is ebil.Twisted

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Rastino
Taipan's Fury
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2012-05-30 23:36:45 UTC
So is this another "Im another sad panda carebear miner" thread?

You know the kind where some one that got ganked whine and want to change eve so its an easy game.
Because if thats the problem I have the fix for you and here it comes..... learn to play the game like yhe rest of us.
Amber Katelo
#33 - 2012-05-31 03:02:15 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Amber Katelo wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Ooh! I can probe out a mission bear, wait till he's pointed by rats and just jam him till the rats pop him? Big smile

Or until he warps off, yes. And yes, this actually makes hi-sec less safe.


How can he warp out if he's tackled by the rats? I can just jam him and go AFK, and he's stuck till downtime.

Oops, sorry, you're quite correct. My mistake.

Perhaps the license should exclude deadspace?

I shoot first.

Amber Katelo
#34 - 2012-05-31 03:16:12 UTC
Rastino wrote:
So is this another "Im another sad panda carebear miner" thread?

You know the kind where some one that got ganked whine and want to change eve so its an easy game.
Because if thats the problem I have the fix for you and here it comes..... learn to play the game like yhe rest of us.

I used to mine several years ago, but moved on to missions (more ISK) until they nerfed salvage, lived in WH space for a while. Now I answer CTAs and bash POSes with the rest of my Alliance mates in null.

I just think that things are slanted a bit in favor of the ganker. I want to provide some way, preferably through a combination of player roles, to even the odds a bit without buffing Concord (which is actually the cause of the problem in the first place).

I shoot first.

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
#35 - 2012-05-31 03:25:57 UTC
Amber Katelo wrote:
Jack Carrigan wrote:

The whole concept is flawed as it would create another avenue for griefing and mechanic exploitation. End up wit a bunch of neutral jammers during wars or 1v1's instead of neutral RR.

Do us all a favor. Give me your stuff and biomass. You half***ed a half*** idea you quarter***ed twit.

Regarding neutral jamming, the act of jamming gives the jammed aggression rights. The moment you or your fleet does it, you're fair game. I addressed that in the initial post. Why would that be insufficient?

And uhhh... you moronic jack*** of a WOWtard, go back to crying over error 37s... is that how that part works?


Alright you misguided, inbred, self-absorbed, piece of walking human fecal excrement, let's break this down in simple words that you can wrap your tiny intellect around. I'm sure you don't have two misfiring synapses to rub together to jumpstart even the beginnings of a thought pattern without starting a fire in the big empty skull of yours.

A "license to jam" in high sec would spell disasterous results for already easily exploited mechanics. Let's break out an example, shall we?

Corp A wardecs Corp B. Corp B brings all of their friends in Falcons with their jamming licenses. Suddenly Corp A can not do ****, even with aggression from being jammed, and suddenly, there goes the fleet. It will be like neutral RR all over again, which created nothing but ***pain.

Furthermore, your weak argument of "they'll have aggression on the jammer." Are you ****ing serious? So let's say we get multiple ships that get jamming licences, and decide to all go jam the same target at the same time. Tell me, how are they able to aggress?

Chances are, they won't be able to.

But I wouldn't expect you, the child that should have been the load blasted on the wall after a quick pull out to understand that.

Furthermore, who's going to take a noob NPC alt seriously? Stick around for a while and stop ****posting, or even better, just stop posting altogether, and biomass, because honestly, we'd hate for your blatant stupidity to rub off on any of the rookies that are actually worth something.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-05-31 03:37:15 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Amber Katelo wrote:
Jack Carrigan wrote:

The whole concept is flawed as it would create another avenue for griefing and mechanic exploitation. End up wit a bunch of neutral jammers during wars or 1v1's instead of neutral RR.

Do us all a favor. Give me your stuff and biomass. You half***ed a half*** idea you quarter***ed twit.

Regarding neutral jamming, the act of jamming gives the jammed aggression rights. The moment you or your fleet does it, you're fair game. I addressed that in the initial post. Why would that be insufficient?

And uhhh... you moronic jack*** of a WOWtard, go back to crying over error 37s... is that how that part works?


Alright you misguided, inbred, self-absorbed, piece of walking human fecal excrement, let's break this down in simple words that you can wrap your tiny intellect around. I'm sure you don't have two misfiring synapses to rub together to jumpstart even the beginnings of a thought pattern without starting a fire in the big empty skull of yours.

A "license to jam" in high sec would spell disasterous results for already easily exploited mechanics. Let's break out an example, shall we?

Corp A wardecs Corp B. Corp B brings all of their friends in Falcons with their jamming licenses. Suddenly Corp A can not do ****, even with aggression from being jammed, and suddenly, there goes the fleet. It will be like neutral RR all over again, which created nothing but ***pain.

Furthermore, your weak argument of "they'll have aggression on the jammer." Are you ****ing serious? So let's say we get multiple ships that get jamming licences, and decide to all go jam the same target at the same time. Tell me, how are they able to aggress?

Chances are, they won't be able to.

But I wouldn't expect you, the child that should have been the load blasted on the wall after a quick pull out to understand that.

Furthermore, who's going to take a noob NPC alt seriously? Stick around for a while and stop ****posting, or even better, just stop posting altogether, and biomass, because honestly, we'd hate for your blatant stupidity to rub off on any of the rookies that are actually worth something.


Holy #### Jack...since when the hell did you start posting rational sound reasoning and keep it reasonably civil enough not to say the F word every other word?

Damn...nice work.

*applauds*

well said!

Seriously! I'm stunned!

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Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
#37 - 2012-05-31 03:47:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Carrigan
Drake Draconis wrote:


Holy #### Jack...since when the hell did you start posting rational sound reasoning and keep it reasonably civil enough not to say the F word every other word?

Damn...nice work.

*applauds*

well said!

Seriously! I'm stunned!


Five weeks in the hole changes a man.

In all seriousness, ****ing NCO training.

And usually there was something rational in my paragraphs loaded with belligerence and hatred. But I think it's because I actually have the proper balance of nicotine and caffeine in my system for once.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Amber Katelo
#38 - 2012-05-31 03:54:11 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:

*snip*
A "license to jam" in high sec would spell disasterous results for already easily exploited mechanics. Let's break out an example, shall we?

Corp A wardecs Corp B. Corp B brings all of their friends in Falcons with their jamming licenses. Suddenly Corp A can not do ****, even with aggression from being jammed, and suddenly, there goes the fleet. It will be like neutral RR all over again, which created nothing but ***pain.

Furthermore, your weak argument of "they'll have aggression on the jammer." Are you ****ing serious? So let's say we get multiple ships that get jamming licences, and decide to all go jam the same target at the same time. Tell me, how are they able to aggress?

Chances are, they won't be able to.
*snip*

At last an actual argument. Thank you.

My only answer to that is what's stopping Corp A from bringing a bucket of jammers themselves? But yeah, that does sound like it's opening the wrong door. So how do we nerf Concord the right amount?

I shoot first.

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
#39 - 2012-05-31 04:03:56 UTC
To answer your question, absolutely nothing.

However, it would turn into neutral ECM-a-thon instead of neutral RR-a-thon.

So either way, it is a stupid ****ing idea.

This just needs to be locked until someone can come up with something actually worth a damn.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Rastino
Taipan's Fury
Pandemic Horde
#40 - 2012-05-31 04:34:54 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Amber Katelo wrote:
Jack Carrigan wrote:

The whole concept is flawed as it would create another avenue for griefing and mechanic exploitation. End up wit a bunch of neutral jammers during wars or 1v1's instead of neutral RR.

Do us all a favor. Give me your stuff and biomass. You half***ed a half*** idea you quarter***ed twit.

Regarding neutral jamming, the act of jamming gives the jammed aggression rights. The moment you or your fleet does it, you're fair game. I addressed that in the initial post. Why would that be insufficient?

And uhhh... you moronic jack*** of a WOWtard, go back to crying over error 37s... is that how that part works?


Alright you misguided, inbred, self-absorbed, piece of walking human fecal excrement, let's break this down in simple words that you can wrap your tiny intellect around. I'm sure you don't have two misfiring synapses to rub together to jumpstart even the beginnings of a thought pattern without starting a fire in the big empty skull of yours.

A "license to jam" in high sec would spell disasterous results for already easily exploited mechanics. Let's break out an example, shall we?

Corp A wardecs Corp B. Corp B brings all of their friends in Falcons with their jamming licenses. Suddenly Corp A can not do ****, even with aggression from being jammed, and suddenly, there goes the fleet. It will be like neutral RR all over again, which created nothing but ***pain.

Furthermore, your weak argument of "they'll have aggression on the jammer." Are you ****ing serious? So let's say we get multiple ships that get jamming licences, and decide to all go jam the same target at the same time. Tell me, how are they able to aggress?

Chances are, they won't be able to.

But I wouldn't expect you, the child that should have been the load blasted on the wall after a quick pull out to understand that.

Furthermore, who's going to take a noob NPC alt seriously? Stick around for a while and stop ****posting, or even better, just stop posting altogether, and biomass, because honestly, we'd hate for your blatant stupidity to rub off on any of the rookies that are actually worth something.



This....

PS. I laughet so hard I pissed my self...... GREAT POST.
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