These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Bombs in Low Sec

Author
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-05-31 00:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: SmilingVagrant
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:


It's called have your warp away set as something other than the bubble. Catching a few idiots doesn't change anything. Doesn't matter how many times you go to school if you flunk.


A proper anti-support hurricane can lock in the time it takes you to motor out or align from the bubble edge. If you train people to constantly look for bombers, you will begin to see fits with scan res's pushing ~1600 which can lock up frigate sized targets in virtually no time. Sure it has a paper thin tank: But when your tootling in the middle of a big battleship fleet which is a juicy target for bombers: No one shoots the hurricane.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#22 - 2012-05-31 00:57:43 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:


It's called have your warp away set as something other than the bubble. Catching a few idiots doesn't change anything. Doesn't matter how many times you go to school if you flunk.


A proper anti-support hurricane can lock in the time it takes you to motor out or align from the bubble edge. If you train people to constantly look for bombers, you will begin to see fits with scan res's pushing ~1600 which can lock up frigate sized targets in virtually no time. Sure it has a paper thin tank: But when your tootling in the middle of a big battleship fleet which is a juicy target for bombers: No one shoots the hurricane.



What you are describing is a custom fit ideal situation. Now I can retort with my own custom fit ideal situation where you have oracles sniping for no tank hurricanes and we can go back and forth on this. This is akin to me trying to explain how to throw a proper punch and you saying "But if i move to the left i can totally leg sweep you."

Here's the first hand experience i've had with those sort of ships. They generally don't stay with the group because if you bomb the group, they'll be the first to die anyway. So they usually orbit off in the distance away from the main group in which case they die from the alpha of 4 bomber's torps. They can uncloak, put res damps and fire torps 10 KM away before the cane pilot has a chance to tap his mic button and scream "i'm ******."
Msgerbs
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-05-31 01:07:41 UTC
Because generally speaking AOE is something reserved for nullsec. AOE warp disruption, AOE damage, etc.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-05-31 01:26:14 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
I understand if you had bombs in high sec Jita undock would be getting bombed all day every day but what is the reason bombers can't deploy bombs in low sec?


I've never heard a good reason for bombs to not work in low sec.

I've heard some bad ones though.


"Low sec is where newer pvpers go to learn, and are more likely to be in smaller ships that could be insta'd by bombs before they get their feet wet, discouraging them from further exploring the profession."

Of course this is false, because, with rare exception, most low sec pvp occurs at gates, which doesn't go well with smaller ships.


Remove sentry guns from low sec, and allow bubbles and bombs!


Anyone else heard some really BAD reasons why bombs shouldn't be deployable in low sec?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Selw kotsidakia
Three Deep Cuts
#25 - 2012-05-31 01:30:29 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8656967
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8656967
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8579892
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8693252

Here you go. A fine collection of bombers that warped into hictor bubbles and got shredded just by me. In each one of these instances the bombers were coming in multiple waves and other people with fast locking ships were killing the others. Warp mechanics state that if you enter warp while the bubble is aligned and on grid: you will be pulled into the bubble, or at least the edge of it.

A common 0.0 antibomber tactic is to pile up a lot of anti support ships and sit the entire fleet in a hictor/dictor bubble till it's time to start moving again.

Welcome to school.



It's called have your warp away set as something other than the bubble. Catching a few idiots doesn't change anything. Doesn't matter how many times you go to school if you flunk.


You can also align out towards the bubble and still warp out!

But let him beleive the right way to counter a bombing run is to sit in bubble. There is noooooooooo way another cloacky will give a good warp spot without getting the squad bubbled and i am sure those stoopid bombers will not have a warp out point so even a ceptor wont be able to lock them! Sure it will end well for those smart guys in their own bubble!
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#26 - 2012-05-31 01:55:46 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
I understand if you had bombs in high sec Jita undock would be getting bombed all day every day but what is the reason bombers can't deploy bombs in low sec?


I've never heard a good reason for bombs to not work in low sec.

I've heard some bad ones though.


"Low sec is where newer pvpers go to learn, and are more likely to be in smaller ships that could be insta'd by bombs before they get their feet wet, discouraging them from further exploring the profession."

Of course this is false, because, with rare exception, most low sec pvp occurs at gates, which doesn't go well with smaller ships.


Remove sentry guns from low sec, and allow bubbles and bombs!


Anyone else heard some really BAD reasons why bombs shouldn't be deployable in low sec?

Low sec is generally a place that is considered "safe" in terms of pods and smaller ships. Allowing bombs would mean a lot more pod losses and probably a bit of sneakily bombing gates just as a a transport/cov ops is warping to it to jump.

Not that id personally be against it, but im guessing that's CCP's reason.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Olleybear
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2012-05-31 02:14:02 UTC
Why aren't bombs aloud in low sec?

CCP still wants consequences for Low Sec agression.

Low Sec has consequences, just not as many consequences as High Sec. Low Sec space has gate and station guns. Everything that aggresses on gate or station gets shot at by those same guns. If a person can bomb a gate, and if your a bomber pilot worth anything at all your going to be aligned out for insta warp right after you launch your bomb, you can get around the consequences of Low Sec gate/station gun fire.

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.

bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#28 - 2012-05-31 02:15:07 UTC
Same reason warp disruption bubbles arent allowed.
B0rg Hakaari
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-05-31 02:21:48 UTC
In the Age of Terrorism...is it too much to ask for bombs in high-sec also?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-05-31 03:11:32 UTC
Selw kotsidakia wrote:

You can also align out towards the bubble and still warp out!

But let him beleive the right way to counter a bombing run is to sit in bubble. There is noooooooooo way another cloacky will give a good warp spot without getting the squad bubbled and i am sure those stoopid bombers will not have a warp out point so even a ceptor wont be able to lock them! Sure it will end well for those smart guys in their own bubble!


Look at who doesn't know how bubble mechanics work when warping in line.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#31 - 2012-05-31 04:21:54 UTC
1: CCP as a general rule disallows the use of AOE weapons or defenses in Low Sec (smart bombs being an exception). That being said when you consider the nature of low sec combat, predominately being comprised of ships that would be excellent targets for a bombing run, I would enjoy it immensely if bombs were allowed.

2: Not to talk down to anyone, but bubbles work very much to a bombers advantage... far more often than they get themselves snared in one. As a bomber pilot with hundreds of kills to bombing runs, few targets are as juicy as a ton of cruiser (and down) ships MWDing across a bubble to get to or leave the area of a gate. Dropping a bomb and warping out intact is simplicity itself, and as long as you remember not to cloak until detonation occurs you are halfway across system when the kill reports start showing up.

The lack of bubbles in Low Sec means that bombing runs would be more challenging. Catching groups on the move would be unlikely, however gate camps would still be prime targets. An attentive member of a gate camp would still be able to jump through or warp away from the gate in time, but we all know how inattentive many members of a gate camp can be (until the first bomb detonates anyway).

3: I believe CCP is a little concerned about the havoc bombs could wreak on people attempting PVE activities in Low Sec, something they very much want to encourage. I think their view is that enabling bomb use would simply give the bomber pilot too big an advantage considering some of the other restrictions of Low Sec.

Hopefully at some point they will reconsider.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#32 - 2012-05-31 04:29:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Selw kotsidakia wrote:

You can also align out towards the bubble and still warp out!

But let him beleive the right way to counter a bombing run is to sit in bubble. There is noooooooooo way another cloacky will give a good warp spot without getting the squad bubbled and i am sure those stoopid bombers will not have a warp out point so even a ceptor wont be able to lock them! Sure it will end well for those smart guys in their own bubble!


Look at who doesn't know how bubble mechanics work when warping in line.


This isn't intended to argue with you, but to serve as an explanation of what some of the others are trying to point out to you.

A typical bomb attack on a gate camp consists of...

1: Warp to your perch just over 150km off the gate and assess the situation.
2: Warp to one of your launch points around the gate at around 40km, get lined up with your warp out point and pick the best time to launch.
3: Get up to speed, at around 30km from the best (most central and preferably MWDing) target hit decloak and then launch bomb, then warp in rapid succession. Take care not to actually enter the bubbles area of effect before hitting warp.
4: Watch as your ship becomes visible at around the same time you enter warp, you will pass through the defensive bubble as your destination point is not on the same grid as the bubble.
5: Half way to your warp out point the bomb detonates, and kill reports tell the tale.
6: Warp back to your perch and assess your chances of a second strike.

Check with your fellow bomber pilots, I'm sure they are well versed in the tactic... I've seen some excellent kill mails from them with Tier 3 cruisers being killed by the dozen.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-05-31 04:32:47 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Selw kotsidakia wrote:

You can also align out towards the bubble and still warp out!

But let him beleive the right way to counter a bombing run is to sit in bubble. There is noooooooooo way another cloacky will give a good warp spot without getting the squad bubbled and i am sure those stoopid bombers will not have a warp out point so even a ceptor wont be able to lock them! Sure it will end well for those smart guys in their own bubble!


Look at who doesn't know how bubble mechanics work when warping in line.


This isn't intended to argue with you, but to serve as an explanation of what some of the others are trying to point out to you.

A typical bomb attack on a gate camp consists of...

1: Warp to your perch just over 150km off the gate and assess the situation.
2: Warp to one of your launch points around the gate at around 40km, get lined up with your warp out point and pick the best time to launch.
3: Get up to speed, at around 30km from the best (most central and preferably MWDing) target hit decloak and then launch bomb, then warp in rapid succession. Take care not to actually enter the bubbles area of effect before hitting warp.
4: Watch as your ship becomes visible at around the same time you enter warp, you will pass through the defensive bubble as your destination point is not on the same grid as the bubble.
5: Half way to your warp out point the bomb detonates, and kill reports tell the tale.
6: Warp back to your perch and assess your chances of a second strike.


That is a really really really old school way of doing it.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#34 - 2012-05-31 04:34:17 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Selw kotsidakia wrote:

You can also align out towards the bubble and still warp out!

But let him beleive the right way to counter a bombing run is to sit in bubble. There is noooooooooo way another cloacky will give a good warp spot without getting the squad bubbled and i am sure those stoopid bombers will not have a warp out point so even a ceptor wont be able to lock them! Sure it will end well for those smart guys in their own bubble!


Look at who doesn't know how bubble mechanics work when warping in line.


This isn't intended to argue with you, but to serve as an explanation of what some of the others are trying to point out to you.

A typical bomb attack on a gate camp consists of...

1: Warp to your perch just over 150km off the gate and assess the situation.
2: Warp to one of your launch points around the gate at around 40km, get lined up with your warp out point and pick the best time to launch.
3: Get up to speed, at around 30km from the best (most central and preferably MWDing) target hit decloak and then launch bomb, then warp in rapid succession. Take care not to actually enter the bubbles area of effect before hitting warp.
4: Watch as your ship becomes visible at around the same time you enter warp, you will pass through the defensive bubble as your destination point is not on the same grid as the bubble.
5: Half way to your warp out point the bomb detonates, and kill reports tell the tale.
6: Warp back to your perch and assess your chances of a second strike.


That is a really really really old school way of doing it.


Yes, but very effective. My point is that bubbles are more of a help than a hindrance.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-05-31 04:40:57 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Yes, but very effective. My point is that bubbles are more of a help than a hindrance.


That looks more like a small gang way of doing it. The big bomber gangs you see used to take down say an entire battleship fleet behaves entirely differently because it has to be launched in waves, they have to be well timed and fast, and they have to be tightly packed as a big fuckoff fleet tends to spread on gates if the FC isn't a ******. Put succinctly we've rarely had a bomb land on us when bubbling up to protect the fleet, and that includes when we were facing White Noise's bomber wing which was considered at the time some of the best in the game (And also the only pack of their pilots who were willing to come out and fight).

Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#36 - 2012-05-31 08:00:05 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Yes, but very effective. My point is that bubbles are more of a help than a hindrance.


That looks more like a small gang way of doing it. The big bomber gangs you see used to take down say an entire battleship fleet behaves entirely differently because it has to be launched in waves, they have to be well timed and fast, and they have to be tightly packed as a big fuckoff fleet tends to spread on gates if the FC isn't a ******. Put succinctly we've rarely had a bomb land on us when bubbling up to protect the fleet, and that includes when we were facing White Noise's bomber wing which was considered at the time some of the best in the game (And also the only pack of their pilots who were willing to come out and fight).




Have to use a better warp in ship. Don't warp right in the direction of the bubble.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#37 - 2012-05-31 08:10:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
ModeratedToSilence wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:


It's called have your warp away set as something other than the bubble. Catching a few idiots doesn't change anything. Doesn't matter how many times you go to school if you flunk.


How many bombs have you deployed?


More than I can remember.


You are never going to align to a point 180 degrees or more from your bomb run heading in time.

I have seen tons of bombing run attempts against CFC fleets, and have never seen one do much real damage. They tend to get picked off almost instantly, and can't do much damage to a spread fleet sitting in a few bubbles.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#38 - 2012-05-31 08:18:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph IX Basarab
You literally can not align more then 180 degrees.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#39 - 2012-05-31 10:36:04 UTC
90. I'm tired.

Point is, it ain't happening. I've seen enough bombers try and fail miserably to know that.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-05-31 10:59:52 UTC
What a brilliant idea, yes please do it.

Let us bomb and bubble low sec and make those as empty as most null sec systems, it's not low sec being over populated.

brb

Previous page123Next page