Intergalactic Summit

And here we go into the circular pattern of pointing out wrongs as justification for further wrongs. Laying back on this sort of logic like it is a pillow is akin to school children fighting and slinging "You did it first!" comments. Never mind the fact that there are no Amarrians left alive today that have any direct ties or responsibility to those events, or any Matari left alive today that lived through them. That said the Day of Darkness was a terrible thing, and from my personal perspective a mistake, but so is every other aggressive act on either side that followed that used a previous one as justification.



Again I have to come back to just where the Murientor Tribe draws the line between slaver and non-slaver. No one has answered that yet, which is a pity, because comments like these seem to indicate there is no line, no distinction being made between Amarrian and Amarrian slaver. If that is the case there is no reason for any otherwise peace-minded Amarrian to continue seeking peace, because if there is to be no mercy and no distinction between civilian and soldier then those Amarrians actually will be joining the 24th to defend their homes from a perceived threat from Matari who don't only want to end slavery but want to simply want to see the Empire burn.

To get back onto the original topic again: Groundless accusations in their totality. I know Ava to be a kind and compassionate person. I also know her to be a bit of a hot-head so it wouldn't surprise me if someone simply provoked her and she made various hostile comments in response, which could easily be taken out of context to create this entire fiasco.

So... let me get this straight.

You were invaded and enslaved. Not our finest hour, I'll agree. Fairly serious mess all round.

Then you rebelled, kicked us out, and have your own territory now. Fine. No friendships there, plenty of grudges, but some kind of conclusion.

...and then you attack Yulai, destroy CONCORD HQ, and stage a massed assault against every law agreed by the assembly. If the Amarrian counterattack had not been so effective, the consequences when CONCORD got its act together could have been catastrophic for everyone.

Now we've got this little play-war that everyone's quite happy to continue, as it has no real effect on the balance of power. The Empire is not innocent, but don't play the injured party. You're hardly blameless yourself.

Dear blessed ancestors, no. What I am suggesting is that you evaluate your situation at hand with a clear mind for wisdom, not vengeance. I do not speak for the Empire nor how it will respond, nor do you have any control over them, but how you respond will directly affect the future of your people.

Think it through. The Amarr have signed treaties and made laws preventing them from taking new slaves, and CONCORD has forced restrictions on doing so as well. Yet, they are not prevented from taking slaves from criminals and prisoners of war. The more you attack into the Amarr Empire, the more of your own people you are offering for the Empire to legally take.

Beyond that, you are attempting to liberate people from slavery in the Empire and relocate them to a Republic that can't even provide for the people it already has because it continues to direct funds and resources to continue liberation rather than providing for those already in its care. My advice isn't to stop funding your defense, it's to stop doing so at the neglect of your own people.

Focus on defending your space, defending your people and developing infrastructure and provision for those already in the Republic first.



No one is saying the Amarr Empire is peace-minded, you're the one trying to insert that statement into the argument. The Empire doesn't have a mind for peace, it never has. I am not suggesting that you hold your breath in hopes for peace, I am suggesting that you make the wise decision and focus your attention on defending your current population, providing for it and building a home worth coming home to rather than dragging people away from the Empire and into a Republic that can't even provide for them yet.



This is precisely the type of thing I am talking about. You have no regard for the lives you destroy, you have no concern over the guilt or innocence of anyone else. You play the victim card because you believe it justifies you and then proceed to kill and destroy without remorse and without concern.

The Amarr are not the only monsters in this conflict, stop pretending they are.

I for one approve of Markius's attitude in this. And for clarity's sake, his corporation has also engaged Sansha loyal forces, so clearly they aren't so caught up on race as they are slavery (though Nation is doing a good thing for the record). I am sure he would gladly destroy my pod Brutor blood in my veins or not.

Also, the Amarr empire is a sovereign state, at war with the republic, so certainly those with affiliation are valid targets. The amount of overreaction here is absurd.

Malcolm. I applaud your attempts to try to mediate some degree of peaceful accord here.

There is a problem though, and it is a simple enough one to explain.

Within the amarrian empire, there are still millions of slaves who's only crime was being born to Matari parents, parents who themselves were enslaved for the same reason. I can understand indentured servitude as a method of criminal rehabilitation, but not slavery due to genetic heritage, and this is common throughout the empire.

For years they have claimed it is for our own good, claims that can be quashed by simply seeing the plight of those who, like my sisters, are forced into breeder camps to enlarge the 'herds' of holders.

I have read their scriptures, had them forced down my throat for years by their theologians, and nowhere does it distinctly allow for any humans to be treated like they treat us.

Hell, it doesn't specifically state that slavery is right and good either, that is simply one, barely justifiable, interpretation that has become widely accepted over the years. an interpretation that was designed simply to give a few, power over many.

still i digress, The reasons we still fight, and will not stop fighting, are simple,

while being Matari is a crime punishable by vitoc induced incarceration and slavery within the empire, while being born to slave parents is a crime in and of itself, and while women die like my sisters did, forced to bear child after child until they become useless to their master, then discarded like so much offal, we will continue to fight for their freedom.

We cannot relent, if we do then we fail our living kin and the memory of those lost to such a brutal and barbaric regime. Worse than that though, if we relent, we allow those holders to keep the seven clans in chains, some physical, others rhetorical. We cannot allow such a situation to remain. even if it means our lives.

I understand that some amarrians are against the status quo, some do not agree with the way the Matari people are treated, but they are a small minority. Therefore the vast majority of Amarrians are our foes, either slaveholders themselves, or supporters of the rights of those slaveholders. Should that situation change, perhaps there can be a peaceful resolution.

Should slavery become something an individual is condemned to for discernable crimes, crimes that are recognised by all, and not something that passes on to innocent children, then, and only then, can there be peace.

I do not ask for an end to the custom of slavery, only that it be just, as currently, there is no justice in the institution of slavery.

Saisieni Thagriin and thank you for your commendation.

I will not be so vain as to claim that I fully understand your fight and the reasons why you make the choices you make, I only claim that I understand what it feels like to have your culture and identity threatened by another.

I do understand the desire to liberate your brothers and sisters still in slavery and I would never urge you to surrender them completely. My counsel is only that you consider a priority, see first to the needs of those already in the Republic, focus on defending what you've already liberated and develop yourselves as a people and as a culture.

If you press too hard and too long, you will drain yourselves and the Empire will retaliate and you will lose all that you have gained. If the Empire were truly as close to defeat as I have seen many claim it to be, it would be far more vocal about a pursuit for resolution to the conflict, I daresay it would even be publicly trying to appease the onslaught.

Instead it continues to resist and it continues to deny any claims that it is floundering. What happens when you have pushed so far in and spread so far out that you find yourselves incapable of standing against the counter assault of the Empire? You will lose all that you have fought so hard for and all the prisoners the Empire takes during that counter assault will legally become slaves.

As painful as it is and as much as it would appear to be abandoning those still in chains, the wisest course of action your people can pursue is to evaluate their future, focus on developing what they have and create a strong border that the Empire cannot pass. Doing so first will bring the greatest benefit to the longevity of your people and their culture.

I will not persist any longer in my words here, I have no desire to seem discouraging or discounting of your struggle and your fight.

Fly bravely.
Fight honorably.
Live wisely.

Bright stars and clear horizons.

Ha, did I frustrate you Malcom? The point was, about what was being said where Markius's tribe draws the line between who is Amarrian and who is an Amarrian Slavers, I was merely pointing out they certainly seem to understand and fight "slavers" of other persuasions, meaning it should be clear that it isn't some antiamarrian stance as I felt was implied in those comments.

Of course, if all I did was add frustration or confusion then all the better. You see from my point of view, so long as the empires stay embittered in thier endless wars, there will never be another situation where they all band together and do something terrible as has happened in the past....So by all means continue to hate and mistrust one another, unfilled unity needs you.

Hear hear. This is the kind of attitude I respect.

I fail to see how making a clear statement regarding your ignorance equates to being frustrated. I am far from frustrated by you.



Considering the question was never raised about race, it was simply what determines a slaver from a non-slaver. This question was, of course, posed with the assumption that they were targeting primarily slavers, which was answered rather pointedly by Markius TheShed with his statement.

Considering that last statement, I personally consider Defiant to be shot on sight. Not that I will do much of a difference by myself, but I encourage other people with at least a bit of ethics to proceed the same way.

However, I am still reserving my judgement upon Skadi's Call.