These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP needs to take a hard look at Goonswarm and Hulkageddon to save EVE.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Haldor Rune
State War Academy
Caldari State
#101 - 2012-05-30 21:53:38 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Haldor Rune wrote:

How would PvE disrupt PvP?.


There is almost no activity in this game that isn't considered a form of PvP, whether it's direct or by proxy.

That's true, but I got the sense that he meant direct PvP, as in killing other players.
Major Templar
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#102 - 2012-05-30 21:54:26 UTC
Death to all Goons!! Headshot VFK by July. And all that jazz.

Really though, who cares about High Sec pubs!? If you need to rent, just learn to 0.0 mine.
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-05-30 21:54:59 UTC
Kiteo Hatto: super successful troll!

Hello, hello again.
terrly bronks
Doomheim
#104 - 2012-05-30 21:56:34 UTC
James 315 wrote:
The only way EVE dies is if highsec miners get their way and have CCP remove non-consensual PvP from the game. Since PvP is the only reason why any rational person would choose to play EVE instead of a game with better PvE, PvP is the lifeblood of EVE. You and highsec miners like you are trying to suck the life out of EVE.

Are we supposed to thank you? Roll



look it up you tube Goons main goal in any MMO is to destroy the gameplay for everyone else, and from what I have seen since 2004 goons got eve about wrapped up :) took em long enough though I think BoB had some to do with that lol.

on to the next came goons lol you win :)
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#105 - 2012-05-30 21:56:42 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:
Really, do you not understand what i said.

That event happened, it was a limited duration thing, anyone is happy enough to do something like that just for kicks once in a while. Nobody really complained because its a one time thing that was "cool".

Now we're talking about something that is going on way too long than it should, and more and more people are speaking up against it. It's such a big deal that the people funding it are responding to these forums in defense of it.

If CCP says its something that won't be "fixed" then too bad for the people being ganked. But the people speaking up about it have every right to speak up and have every right to be able to enjoy the game how they like.


No, I get your point. What I'm saying is that ganking is something that not only are they cool with on a philosophical level, they quite like that it's a thing people can do. That's not something they're going to give up easily - like you'd have to be talking cataclysmic levels of unsubs, and even then it might not work since making such a wholesale change to the PVP structure of the game could well cause the rest of the game to unsub in return.

Funny that the original poster of this thread mentioned Star Wars Galaxies, as it fits my point - you cannot make wholesale changes to an underlying philosophy of a game and expect people to stay on board. UO learned this lesson the hard way with Trammell, and SW:G learned it with the NGE. If you care even the tiniest bit about Eve or CCP, hope, pray and do everything you can to make sure they don't do the same thing.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Haldor Rune
State War Academy
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-05-30 21:57:52 UTC
Love or hate Goons, Snow Axe is 100% right here.
Spikeflach
Perkone
Caldari State
#107 - 2012-05-30 22:02:14 UTC
HVAC Repairman wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:
Carebear is the idea of a person who plays with "no risk" correct?

Cause a carebear out in a hulk during the "culling" would be risking himself or herself, thus removing carebear status.

Those that suicide gank, do it with no risk. In fact much of the PvP is done with no risk in eve or at least for the large alliances. You either have bigger guns, or you dock up. Where the heck is the risk if you have a huge fleet backing you or its a guaranteed loss you don't care about?

Those claiming to be PvPers should go out and actually take a risk, talk to one of the other huge alliances and pick a battlefield system and shoot at each other. Lots more fun PvP comes from Squeezing your buttcheeks together wondering if you are going to survive.
you're only risking something if you know it's a risk and in the majority of cases that ain't so

you're assuming that fleet fights aren't happening because there aren't any territorial wars going on which is so hilariously untrue you should probably stop posting


I'm not talking about fighting for territory, that actually is probably one of the most PvE oriented PvP things you can do without completely being PvE.

And the fact that those territories are probably being taken over by entities with the biggest baddest fleet possible so they don't have to worry about losing. Risk is bad!

Unless you can truely show a territory dispute where it may not be known who is going to win...

I'm saying, don't pvp for territory, find another alliance willing and able to actually fight you for the fun of it.

Playing sports, teams play with equal numbers of players, so really the only way to win is with skills and the most fun comes from teams that seem to be equally skilled. Otherwise you get the "fair weather fan" scenario.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-05-30 22:03:30 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:
the people speaking up about it have every right to speak up and have every right to be able to enjoy the game how they like.


You can ride this bandwagon all you like, but you'll get the same response every single time. If you don't like it, there's plenty of games out there where you can mine all day & be 100% safe from player interaction.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#109 - 2012-05-30 22:03:30 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:

I'm not talking about fighting for territory, that actually is probably one of the most PvE oriented PvP things you can do without completely being PvE.

yes lets all listen to the highsec scrublord preach about 0.0 territorial fights while he laments his lost hulk
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-05-30 22:05:12 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
I will still say CCP, tutorials(yeah the ones that EVERYONE has to do) state that "the good police guys will come and help you, you are safe in 0.5 and above Roll"

It's people like you who decide to make the game dangerous for everyone as it is today because you have too much isk and free time.


1. Screenshot please.

2. CCP have stated many times that EVE was designed to be a harsh place. There is very little 'Intended gamplay mechanics' put in place by them. As by design. Players are encouraged to create their own stories. All you really want is another scripted game.




I didn't mean it word for word. Aura says that concord will come to the rescue should you be unjustly attacked, however you are on your own if you steal from someone.

Concord COMES but it doesn't help since the gankers win in the end, see the flaw ? By all means low and null ARE meant to be dangerous and ruthless. I want a game where im not restricted to doing what's favoured by the "big" boys, you know, a real sandbox ?

CCP couldn't have predicted that goons would exists nor that they would abuse the "freedom" given when they launched eve.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2012-05-30 22:09:16 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
I didn't mean it word for word. Aura says that concord will come to the rescue should you be unjustly attacked, however you are on your own if you steal from someone.

Concord COMES but it doesn't help since the gankers win in the end, see the flaw ? By all means low and null ARE meant to be dangerous and ruthless. I want a game where im not restricted to doing what's favoured by the "big" boys, you know, a real sandbox ?

CCP couldn't have predicted that goons would exists nor that they would abuse the "freedom" given when they launched eve.


So what's the lesson you learn when CONCORD shows up too late to save you? CONCORD isn't perfect, and is not supposed to be perfect, and get this, they NEVER WILL BE PERFECT. Their imperfection is impetus to explore other options in-game and not live under an all-encompassing NPC blanket while you do Your Favorite Thing with impunity.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2012-05-30 22:09:16 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:


I'm saying, don't pvp for territory, find another alliance willing and able to actually fight you for the fun of it.
im not sure which eve you play but this is already happening

Follow me on twitter
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-05-30 22:11:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Concord COMES but it doesn't help since the gankers win in the end, see the flaw ? By all means low and null ARE meant to be dangerous and ruthless. I want a game where im not restricted to doing what's favoured by the "big" boys, you know, a real sandbox ?


CONCORD was never designed to rescue you. It's punishment in it's simplest form, not a handsome blonde guy on a white horse wearing a metal skirt. There is no flaw.

As for being restricted, there are many things you can do to mitigate the risk. If you pay attention you can outright avoid being ganked. There's plenty of career miners posting on the forums that prove this point. You simply allow yourself to be a victim, whether by choice or as a result of laziness.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Spikeflach
Perkone
Caldari State
#114 - 2012-05-30 22:12:21 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:
Really, do you not understand what i said.

That event happened, it was a limited duration thing, anyone is happy enough to do something like that just for kicks once in a while. Nobody really complained because its a one time thing that was "cool".

Now we're talking about something that is going on way too long than it should, and more and more people are speaking up against it. It's such a big deal that the people funding it are responding to these forums in defense of it.

If CCP says its something that won't be "fixed" then too bad for the people being ganked. But the people speaking up about it have every right to speak up and have every right to be able to enjoy the game how they like.


No, I get your point. What I'm saying is that ganking is something that not only are they cool with on a philosophical level, they quite like that it's a thing people can do. That's not something they're going to give up easily - like you'd have to be talking cataclysmic levels of unsubs, and even then it might not work since making such a wholesale change to the PVP structure of the game could well cause the rest of the game to unsub in return.

Funny that the original poster of this thread mentioned Star Wars Galaxies, as it fits my point - you cannot make wholesale changes to an underlying philosophy of a game and expect people to stay on board. UO learned this lesson the hard way with Trammell, and SW:G learned it with the NGE. If you care even the tiniest bit about Eve or CCP, hope, pray and do everything you can to make sure they don't do the same thing.


Yeah, i suppose it may be a long road if hi sec ganking were to be "fixed". But these "extended" events are going to further increase the number of people speaking out about them. Which will essentially drive the idea of CCP looking into it.

If CCP comes out and says that they aren't going to "fix" it. then great, we all move on.


EvilweaselSA wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:

I'm not talking about fighting for territory, that actually is probably one of the most PvE oriented PvP things you can do without completely being PvE.

yes lets all listen to the highsec scrublord preach about 0.0 territorial fights while he laments his lost hulk


Thanks for listening to me. :)

Please give me proof of my hulk I supposedly lost cause honestly I don't even know when the last time i was out in one hehe.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#115 - 2012-05-30 22:13:32 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
I didn't mean it word for word.
In other words, they don't say it at all.

Quote:
Concord COMES but it doesn't help since the gankers win in the end, see the flaw ?
No. That's by design so the ganker has a chance of destroying his target before he blows up. That's not a flaw — it's intentional.

Quote:
I want a game where im not restricted to doing what's favoured by the "big" boys, you know, a real sandbox ?
You're never restricted by what anyone else favours — you're only restricted by your own choices and how much you're willing to put on the line to reach your goal.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#116 - 2012-05-30 22:15:11 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:
If CCP comes out and says that they aren't going to "fix" it. then great, we all move on..


You seem to have missed the 'Suicide ganking works as intended' posts by Devs over the years.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#117 - 2012-05-30 22:19:26 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:
If CCP comes out and says that they aren't going to "fix" it. then great, we all move on..


You seem to have missed the 'Suicide ganking works as intended' posts by Devs over the years.


That was before it started to became a profession and greifing seemed to become an accepted thing, and the risk (no risk) is completely out of kilter with reward.

Tal




Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2012-05-30 22:20:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Spikeflach wrote:
Yeah, i suppose it may be a long road if hi sec ganking were to be "fixed". But these "extended" events are going to further increase the number of people speaking out about them. Which will essentially drive the idea of CCP looking into it.

If CCP comes out and says that they aren't going to "fix" it. then great, we all move on.


It's never going to be "fixed" because it's not actually a problem. Well, it is to SOME people, but that's the nature of the beast in any PVP game (or even PVP segment of a game). Events like this might, yet this event is far smaller in scope (it's just the 100mil/10 kill payout, not the bulk prizes for top scorers after a month or anything) and its indefinite nature will lead to boredom and stagnation, especially as more and more Hulk pilots silently change their ways, be it battleship mining, lowsec mining, staying out of major systems, etc etc. Either way, I promise you that "fixing" ganking (i.e. getting rid of it) would anger far more players than allowing it would, since the change is a philosophical one, rather than just a mechanics one.

As for CCP coming out and saying what they will/won't do, they already have, really. The article I linked about Burn Jita reactions speaks pretty loudly about what they think of ganking and its applications, and yet we still had people screaming and crying about it the whole time, threatening mass unsubs, etc etc. Hulkageddon was more of the same (not only in tone but in people - who knew ABLOO BLOO I UNSUB FIX THIS NOW OR ELSE types were full of it?). Them coming out now and saying anything would either (a) change nothing, as it'd be them affirming what we all know or (b) them annoucning they're going to remove ganking which would be followed up by a tidal wave of unsubs from people seeing which way the wind is blowing now. It's lose-lose for them to even bother.


Talon SilverHawk wrote:
That was before it started to became a profession and greifing seemed to become an accepted thing, and the risk (no risk) is completely out of kilter with reward.


How much do you think an average Hulk gank yields for its gankers, isk-wise?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Knus'lar
Wormbro
The Society For Unethical Treatment Of Sleepers
#119 - 2012-05-30 22:34:18 UTC
Drax Dremal wrote:
Goonswarm is bot moon mining, bot ice mining and bot ore mining.

How do you know they are botting?
Drax Dremal wrote:
They have enouph protection to be emune from Hulkageddon

Immune* and they started hulkageddon, i dont think people are blowing them up currently >.>....
Drax Dremal wrote:
CCP you need to take a hard stance against Goonswarm to save EVE and your jobs.

Show me proof that goons are 'ruining eve' and that CCP even cares what happens. I think they WANT the game to evolve in ways they hadnt even dreamed of. Stop using slippery slopes to 'prove' a point.
Drax Dremal wrote:
The only reason you are so big is because of high sec and the carebears. Carebears give you and other pirates something to fight against.

Hmmm.... I will guess that you are one of these carebears. Pirates fight each other. All the time. That doesnt mean we dont pillage when we have the chance, but Im pretty sure we would be fine without you.
Drax Dremal wrote:
I think your going to be playing with yourself!!

Thats something else entirely.

Basically, you are whining because you dont like something, and are blaming goons and pvpers for it. Get over it.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#120 - 2012-05-30 22:36:04 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:
If CCP comes out and says that they aren't going to "fix" it. then great, we all move on..


You seem to have missed the 'Suicide ganking works as intended' posts by Devs over the years.


That was before it started to became a profession and greifing seemed to become an accepted thing, and the risk (no risk) is completely out of kilter with reward.

Tal






I've never played a FFA pvp game were greifing existed.

Lineage 2, no rule against greifing.
Mortal Online, no rule against greifing.
Darkfall, no rule against greifing.
Face of mankind, no rule against greifing.

EVE, no rule against greifing.

Greifing is only greifing, when the rules say it's not allowed. Training mobs onto another player in an MMO that doesn't allow for PvP is usually considered greifing and can be punished. CCP says suicide ganking is allowed, and therefore it's not greifing.

Suicide ganking may be the lowest form of PvP, but it's still PvP, and you can't call PvP greifing in a game that encourages you to actually blow each others ships up.

I'm kind of dissapointed that you're using the term greifing Tal. I feel like it's kind of a cheap tactic to imply that people are doing things they shouldn't be doing. I read a lot of the things you post, and while I don't agree with everything, I respect that you have a tendency to express your opinion in an intelligent manner.

But come on man. Greifing? I mean, that's a little extreme, don't you think?