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POCO - Actual Incomes
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BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-05-30 16:03:29 UTC
Can anyone give me an idea of what to expect from POCO income. I know their is a lot of variables so Ill try to "define" it

All LS systems: Storm/plazma/lava planets

2-3 jumps from high sec

and

1 jump from high sec

Are barren planets even worth looking at?

Is there a good way to estimate income?

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#2 - 2012-05-30 16:27:40 UTC
Way too many variables to give you a number, so here are some factors to consider.

1. What are you producing?
2. What is the market price on your PI goods
3. What is the market volume on those PI goods?
4. What tax rate are you charging others?
5. How many others have decided to setup shop on your planets?
6. For those who have, how active are they?
7. If others have setup shop, how many of them are competing for the same hotspots your PI is using?
8. Given levels of pirate activity in the area, how likely are you to lose some PI goods during transport?


Market Research and good tax planning can help reduce the time it takes for these ~100m structures to pay for themselves. If you just set them up for your own personal use, they will take ages to pay for themselves.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-05-30 16:31:25 UTC
Pinstar Colton wrote:
Way too many variables to give you a number, so here are some factors to consider.

1. What are you producing?
2. What is the market price on your PI goods
3. What is the market volume on those PI goods?
4. What tax rate are you charging others?
5. How many others have decided to setup shop on your planets?
6. For those who have, how active are they?
7. If others have setup shop, how many of them are competing for the same hotspots your PI is using?
8. Given levels of pirate activity in the area, how likely are you to lose some PI goods during transport?


Market Research and good tax planning can help reduce the time it takes for these ~100m structures to pay for themselves. If you just set them up for your own personal use, they will take ages to pay for themselves.




Let me clarify some of your questions

1) I am not producing anything however the people using the planets will be producing / extracting the same type of products that you or I would most likely produce.

2) Why would this matter Im setting up POCOs not PI

3) Again why woudl I care

4) under the normal IBUS so say 15%

5) I cant seem to figure this out. I viewed "planet mode" and selected "view others whatevers" and nothing appears. Is there a trick to seeing who is there. Clearly this would be extremly helpful in knowing what planet is worth while if you could see installations

6)No way to find this out really

7) Doesnt matter to me, its them that would have to worry about this.

I think your confused as I want to setup a POCO for rent not PI

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#4 - 2012-05-30 16:47:10 UTC
If you take the time and expense to setup your own POCO, you are wasting some potential gain for yourself by not doing PI on your own planets. Since you control the taxes and (presumably) have control of the corp wallet where your POCO's taxes flow to, your own PI is tax-free for you. Other people using your planets is just gravy.

You aren't going to attract much interest with a 15% tax rate. Yes, it is slightly below what an interbus station would charge, but it is more than concord's 10% in high sec. With the declining prices of PI in general, 15% might make things unprofitable, which would discourage people from building colonies which means no tax income for you.

Worse, others may see your 15% tax rate as an attempt to hoard the planet, and may take aggressive action against your POCOs so they can install their own with a more reasonable rate.

My corp owns 5 POCOs out in low. Our tax policy is as follows:
Neutrals: 8%
Good: 6%
Excellent & Corp members: 4%

While the POCOs have not yet paid for themselves, they are well on their way due to the steadily increasing number of people (both in corp and random neutrals) utilizing the planets.

One other thing you can do to encourage others to build colonies is to put up command centers of the appropriate types for sale in the same system as your planets, especially if the nearest NPC seeding station is many jumps away.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Alberik
Eusebius Corporation
#5 - 2012-05-30 16:49:16 UTC
break it down on a single planet/poco
at 15% charge you need goods for about 700m ,give or take some m, exported to break even.

im not doing much pi, dont have a real idea how much you can make in lowsec, but i would estimate about 50m a month for the average player.

so it takes 1 player 14 month to pay your poco, 14 players 1 month ...
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-05-30 16:58:26 UTC
Some great info here.

Thanks keep it coming.


Pinstar, how many people are utilizing those planets?

How long do you expect until the pocos are paid (overall time)?

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#7 - 2012-05-30 17:20:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinstar Colton
Between my corp's 5 planets there are a total of about 25 colonies. Though some of them are not as active as they could be. That said, my numbers are increasing steadily as more people stumble upon them.

I'd say I'm about 1/4 the way to recovering my costs, though much of that has come from the sales of my own tax-free PI goods rather than the taxes, but it took people awhile to discover these low-tax POCOs. At this rate, I'll probably have my costs recovered in another month or two, depending on what the PI markets do.

The easiest way to tell when someone has a colony on your planet is to look at the corporation's journal. If someone imports/exports goods, you will see who did it, when, on which planet, and how much you made in taxes. You can also see the level of activity by how often a person exchanges goods at your POCO.

If you put up sell orders for command centers nearby, seeing those sold can be an indication of someone who might colonize a planet soon (though they may buy them to colonize some other world nearby).

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-05-30 17:48:57 UTC
Pinstar Colton wrote:
Between my corp's 5 planets there are a total of about 25 colonies. Though some of them are not as active as they could be. That said, my numbers are increasing steadily as more people stumble upon them.

I'd say I'm about 1/4 the way to recovering my costs, though much of that has come from the sales of my own tax-free PI goods rather than the taxes, but it took people awhile to discover these low-tax POCOs. At this rate, I'll probably have my costs recovered in another month or two, depending on what the PI markets do.

The easiest way to tell when someone has a colony on your planet is to look at the corporation's journal. If someone imports/exports goods, you will see who did it, when, on which planet, and how much you made in taxes. You can also see the level of activity by how often a person exchanges goods at your POCO.

If you put up sell orders for command centers nearby, seeing those sold can be an indication of someone who might colonize a planet soon (though they may buy them to colonize some other world nearby).



Ok 5 colonies per planet is very low. I would tend to stay away from something like that. I want to see around 20 I would think?

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#9 - 2012-05-30 18:13:12 UTC
My corp's bundle of planets is deeper into low than what you described. Much lower traffic means fewer colonies, but safer transporting. Given the placement you described, you'll probably get more colonies, but also need to dodge more pirates...depending on the nature of the systems you are setting up shop in.

Do realize that many players are hesitant to enter low sec at all, even if there are good planets with reasonable taxes there.

20 colonies on one planet is a bit much. Even if you were able to attract that many, you'd have massive competition over hot spots and the planet would get depleted faster than it could replenish. I guess you could sustain it if you made sure no more than 4 people extracted any given resource and made sure everyone got their own hot spot and didn't compete over them...but there is NO way to organize or control that.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Fahzja
Envirocore
#10 - 2012-05-30 21:58:43 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:

4) under the normal IBUS so say 15%


My experience w/ POCO's is that they change hands quite often, so I rather negotiate a comfortable tax rate rather than fight over them. That said, I'd never accept 15%, and it seems to me that one of two things would happen if you enforce such a rate: either you'll get little business, or rough business. Again, that's gauging from my own experience.

I do PI strictly in losec, and commonly accept a tax rate of ~ 5%, give or take. I can afford to be picky because I know exactly what I want to produce, and exactly where in losec to produce it. I accept nothing over 10%, and even then at that uppermost rate it's situational. If you cannot satisfy me, I will move elsewhere. For me it is just that simple. Most POCO owners give in rather than see business leave.