EVE General Discussion

Note: I know a lot of trolls on acid and other reality twisting substances will feel a psychological need for trolling, but please, for goodness sake, I am bringing something relevant to a discussion of two sides who are constantly at war using tears as weapons; may they be goon-eve-is-hard-and-cold-deal-with-it tears or may they be someone-shot-my-expensive-ship-in-high-sec tears - they are still tears both of which lacks any intelligence behind them and I for one am sick of these threads. Therefore I kindly request the courtesy to avoid trolling and instead discussing the risk/reward with suicide-ganking; a fundamental part of EVE.

Note 2: I have never been suicide-ganked and I have never suicide-ganked, thus I can remain impartial since I dislike the idea that miners should be safe as much as I dislike nullsecers for their hypocrisy.

Topic: I know sec-status is affected when attacking people in high-sec ... hell, my sec has suffered when I've seen a lonely victim sitting by a gate in low sec and I say to myself, "oh, ****, a kill!" - then I die from Gallente badass gate-guns. Sucks. Anyhow, is this penalty enough? If someone is deemed a murderer in empire by either a faction or by CONCORD, why would they allow this person entrance? In the tear-filled debated raging between goons and high sec miners, neither one seem to produce any kind of argument a self-respecting person would use. I propose a better risk/reward-system for suicide-ganking, because if the reward outweighs the risk too much - then how can we call that EVE?

This is not about discouraging suicide-ganking, but simply about not making life easy for them, because that simply isn't life in New Eden; actions should have consequences - murder in empire should have severe consequences.

I know this has been discussed before, but why has it not been implemented? It's not logical to commit several murders in empire space and only lose a bit of security status; to commit murder should be an act of outlawing oneself and thus accepting consequences of no longer being permitted travel in CONCORD / specific faction ruled space.

tl;dr: suicide-ganking is too easy and should have greater penalty; life for suicide gankers should be no easier than life for miners. EVE is a system built on risk/reward - and the reward for suicide-ganking outweighs the risk of doing it.

Thus ends the thoughts of Gaius Julius - oh, no, wait - Julii Hakaari (doesn't sound at all as awesome, now does it?).

What are your thoughts? And, yet again, please, for goodness sake, act as the intelligent EVE-gamers your propose yourselves to be.

Regards,
J. H.

Nope.
Hell, it was recently increased by about 400%.

Because what you describe is the players' job, not something that should be handled by NPCs.

Note: when you say the word trolls they come in a minute, they can smell you from lightyears away.

there ought to be enough risk in putting me at risk to ensure i am 100% safe while afk mining at all times

I'm sitting here asking myself what I should reply. I see this ignorant and stupid post and I see that, of course - you're a goon, and I ask myself if I'm racist against goons or if I'm just a realist for not being surprised that ignorant, stupidity and goons walk hand in hand, but then I realize that I'm better off reading about Einstein's theory on relativity, so I walk away.

Yes it is. Your security is your responsibility. Keeping you safe is your job. The NPCs are not part of it, in highsec or anywhere else. If you want people to be kept out of highsec because they threaten your security, then it's your job to keep them out.

If you think the penalty is too low, it's because you make it too low. You are willingly nullifying some of the costs. Your choices are not a game design problem.
No. They do that because you engage in a criminal act, not because you have any specific level of security status. It's exactly the same as why CONCORD doesn't chase outlaws, only cirminals. You're confusing two completely separate mechanics.

I don't see it as a play-style I wish to adapt to myself. With that said, I have no problems with other people doing it, because I have no will in changing someone's liberty - but I do want a better reward/risk system for gankers who can suicide-gank a ship with valuable cargo and loot it with his alt.


15 minutes is nothing; the scanned ship risks to lose a lot more spent time.
Killrights is not enough.
The security loss is indeed a good penalty, but it should be harder upon the ganker.
Of course the ship is blown up - it should be; that's why it's called suicide-ganking.

What I'm talking about is a more realistic approach to someone who commits murder in a state rather than in a desolate place equivalent to a lonely island, i.e. nullsec.


If this is what you've gathered from reading my post, then I do pity you.

I do not whine and I have given no such impression to deserve such a pitiful argument against my arguments. You'd do well to stick with the mentality you first showed when producing arguments which I may not agree with, but I do respect.

The suicide ganker is 100% guaranteed to lose his ship, some modules, and sec status. It is the highest risk activity in EVE. Anyone can acknowledge that.

I agree that the security status is the responsibility of the character, but I don't see what that has to do with anything. I'm talking about there being fundamental differences between high security space, low security space and null security space. To commit a murder in for instance Minmatar Republic should have more severe consequences either by Minmatar Republic itself, or CONCORD. Why would they wait until your security status drops enough? Is one murder not enough? I agree that the player-base should in essence rule the game, but there are differences between the different securities of space, and these differences cannot be ignored as long as there is any kind of environmental game-play in New Eden.


No, they are not, but it is a game design problem if your reward far exceeds the risk of killing me in CONCORD/faction space.


I never said it has anything to due with "specific level of security status".

What this thread is about is simple: does the reward exceed the risk too much of suicide-ganking? I believe so, why else are people doing it? I'm not saying that we should prevent it because people are doing it; merely look at it and ask if it isn't too easy after all. I'm just trying to get a discussion between two parties' going here; a break from the goon-whining and the miner-whining.


Yes, "eventually" that will happen. I propose a harder, more cold, if you will, punishment for committing murder in high sec.

CONCORDS response to Outlaws/Criminals that enter Hi-sec is very underwhelming. Currently you can be -10.0 and still go anyway in EVE. Which would not be an issue if there were not ways to getting ships after entering.

I have no issues with gankers other then the impunity in which they seem to operate in hi-sec. Having CONCORD deem them Shoot on Site after they have reach a certain security status would slow down their activities and would make paid events like Hulkageddon unsustainable in hi-sec.

As was pointed out above, you are responsible for you own security. But this isn't 0.0 where you have an alliance to keep out the un-welcomed. In Hi-sec you only have CONCORD.