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Does Eve need more Taxes?

Author
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#81 - 2012-04-27 04:16:21 UTC
Perramas wrote:
Whatever the new taxes are they need to be progressive taxes. The more isk in your wallet the higher your tax rate. That way new players wont have to grind out even more crappy low level missions while they train the skills for more lucrative endeavors.


Easily avoided.

I keep all ISK on my alt account, do all my purchase/sells/activity on my main account and only shoot over enough ISK from the alt account to cover immediate needs.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#82 - 2012-04-27 11:13:47 UTC
One thing that really have not been mentioned much here..

The features of player to player taxing and billing. WE need this almost as much, if not more than npc taxing.

Ideally the features players got would be integrated better and floating price balanced on npc side.

There is a thread over in Features that also discuss the taxing issue.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101426&find=unread

I mentioned the option of wealth tax at a maximum of 2%

Yes players could just move their money to alt accounts..
That is why statements of payment would be needed. Tax avoidance would be visible. Just sort table by taxed amount and start kicking those that paid to low tax. Say Scrapyard Bob here, that is a rather veteran player. Any amounts "claiming" he has less then 1B in his accounts, would be obvious avoidance. Also said veterans might be considered special enough to use a flat billing instead, since access to his amassed wealth would be "unfair".

The potential benefits from introducing these things first is staggering.
Player to player bills. Unpaid.. Set standing to neutral.
Third warning. Set to Bad.

Option on standing based limitation in public contracts. Suddenly paying your bills might make sense.
Buying someones debt. If the bills could have a preset compounding interest generated.. Hmm suddenly we would get a better mechanic for handling player to player loans, and even trading such credit in a future update..

Pres Crendraven
#83 - 2012-04-27 12:29:18 UTC
If we want to talk taxes, we must look at what we want to accomplish with them after taking the time to understand how different styles of tax cuts, levies and credit can affect gameplay.
The current concern seems to be inflation. Reducing money supply is conventional wisdom. Total assets could be taxed, 2% as mentioned could temporarily turn the tide against monopolies which I suspect would be good for gameplay. I wish I knew the numbers for reactions. A lot wealth gravitates through them. This might also be a viable taxation vector if taxed with isk instead of product. Other areas that act like ISK wells or holding ponds need to be identified also. The current (refine) tax for poses is counter productive. Especially since we will be needing more minerals. T3, LP and faction modules are others that come to mind. It really depends on what you want to do with taxes though.

Do you want to decrease money supply to try to control inflation. Do you want to control the size of monopolies. Stimulate conflict and if so, financial or military just to name a few. Any taxation changes need to be projected out a few cycles to see their real effect. to often we only go out one layer deep. To stimulate conflict for instance, you need temporary rolling tax credits. Instead we don't tax much at all and end up with the monopolies and a repeated drift toward stagnancy.

Meta34me

Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent.

Trollin
Perkone
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-05-30 11:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Trollin
the best way to sink isk is to cause it not to be generated so much in the first place instead of taking it out of traders asses

reduce bounties or ramp up difficulty. ie. give belt rats sleeper AI/increased hps/dps
reduce mission rewards or ramp up difficulty. ie give mission rats sleeper AI/increased hps/dps
reduce incursion rewards or ramp up difficulty. << ccp already done this w/ vanguards

We are our own worst enemy.

Nikodiemus
Ganja Clade
Shadow Cartel
#85 - 2012-05-30 16:20:47 UTC
Kawaai wrote:
Taxes are dull, they are IRL they are ingame. If you figure increasing the taxes will fix the economy, think again.
Those measures really only work when the money is genuinely going somewhere. Since we have one currency, one economy and also no government there is little use to implementing higher taxes but for only the sake of discouraging transactions.


TL;RD: No.


Aren't you forgetting that while this game has one currency, it is completely artificial and can undergo drastic changes over just a day whether through expansions or just market activity and that the faucets must be balanced with the sinks. I agree taxes are boring - at least in the way they are implemented now. I have trade skills pretty high to reduce taxes but those are mostly not needed because they are so low. Higher taxes would allow these skills to be more useful but then in the end all you have are more "essential" skills that everyone trains for and then once training is complete nothing else changes, back to square one. (remember our old learning skills that everyone trained and made new characters pointless for several months before CCP just removed them?)

One of the interesting things mentioned earlier was a transaction tax on regional gates or something of the like. Seems interesting, forces people to fine tune courier and transport to reduce costs. Not a great idea but it is a good example of a tax that can be implemented to affect gameplay in a more positive manner and encourage innovation and thinking outside the box instead of just flat taxing and forcing people to train skills to drop it.

Another "tax" that could be cool is a tax to fund some sort of consumer financial regulator group, probably would have to be NPC, that would manage the credit of pod pilots to make player corps have a reference for loans, stocks, investment, etc. which is something I know a lot of us tycoons want - more business flexibility. Or maybe a cost to hold inventory for homogeneous items (prevent someone stockpiling huge amounts of morphite or tech for instance and increase costs to hold in inventory, just like the real world)

All are half baked ideas that I just came up with here but the point I wanted to make was if you are going to tax or create sinks, do it in a way to encourage innovative gameplay and give the players something else to play with or work with, not just a flat tax sink.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#86 - 2012-05-30 16:58:29 UTC
Nikodiemus wrote:
Kawaai wrote:
Taxes are dull, they are IRL they are ingame. If you figure increasing the taxes will fix the economy, think again.
Those measures really only work when the money is genuinely going somewhere. Since we have one currency, one economy and also no government there is little use to implementing higher taxes but for only the sake of discouraging transactions.


TL;RD: No.


Aren't you forgetting that while this game has one currency, it is completely artificial and can undergo drastic changes over just a day whether through expansions or just market activity and that the faucets must be balanced with the sinks. I agree taxes are boring - at least in the way they are implemented now. I have trade skills pretty high to reduce taxes but those are mostly not needed because they are so low. Higher taxes would allow these skills to be more useful but then in the end all you have are more "essential" skills that everyone trains for and then once training is complete nothing else changes, back to square one. (remember our old learning skills that everyone trained and made new characters pointless for several months before CCP just removed them?)

One of the interesting things mentioned earlier was a transaction tax on regional gates or something of the like. Seems interesting, forces people to fine tune courier and transport to reduce costs. Not a great idea but it is a good example of a tax that can be implemented to affect gameplay in a more positive manner and encourage innovation and thinking outside the box instead of just flat taxing and forcing people to train skills to drop it.

Another "tax" that could be cool is a tax to fund some sort of consumer financial regulator group, probably would have to be NPC, that would manage the credit of pod pilots to make player corps have a reference for loans, stocks, investment, etc. which is something I know a lot of us tycoons want - more business flexibility. Or maybe a cost to hold inventory for homogeneous items (prevent someone stockpiling huge amounts of morphite or tech for instance and increase costs to hold in inventory, just like the real world)

All are half baked ideas that I just came up with here but the point I wanted to make was if you are going to tax or create sinks, do it in a way to encourage innovative gameplay and give the players something else to play with or work with, not just a flat tax sink.


thats what im saying, thoughtless careless dumbing down of a MAJOR game feature is utterly ******** to put it nicely.

What we need to focus on is ratting and plexing in goon space, lets get some statistics on that.
Zelda Wei
New Horizon Trade Exchange
#87 - 2012-05-30 21:45:41 UTC
If you introduce artificial wealth 'taxes' then players will game the tax system, just like real life.

Recognise this and make the 'tax' rules promote the game vision.

The obvious example is extend the effects of standing on taxes and fees.

Gate & Docking fees based on Ship (+cargo) Mass * Security.

More Office with Rent based on standing.

Extend the contract system, e.g. Reverse Auctions for Courier contracts.
Jih'dara
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2012-06-24 04:45:59 UTC
Zelda Wei wrote:
If you introduce artificial wealth 'taxes' then players will game the tax system, just like real life.

Recognise this and make the 'tax' rules promote the game vision.

The obvious example is extend the effects of standing on taxes and fees.

Gate & Docking fees based on Ship (+cargo) Mass * Security.

More Office with Rent based on standing.

Extend the contract system, e.g. Reverse Auctions for Courier contracts.


I think this is a good idea, to have fees increase or decrease with factional standing. Amarrians should have to pay more to buy things in Hek or Rens, and Gallente should have to pay more in Jita.

I had an idea once to make a security based transaction tax on a systems security status. 10% in a 1.0 system, %5 in a 0.5 system and so on. This would hopefully encourage more people to move business and trade into low and null sec areas.

This makes 'game world' sense if you think about it. Those NPC forces that keep the high security system safe are pod pilots too. Their ships cost money and they don't work for free. The amount of 'work' they are prepared to do depends on how well paid they are, so they are slower to respond in areas where they are paid less.
forestwho
Doomheim
#89 - 2012-06-24 20:19:42 UTC
we need more taxes to remove all the tech isk form the game.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#90 - 2012-06-24 20:57:51 UTC
forestwho wrote:
we need more taxes to remove all the tech isk form the game.



Tech doesn't create isk. It just moves it around.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#91 - 2012-06-24 21:51:14 UTC
Making blue books from wh be a part of ship construction instead of an isk faucet.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -