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The Carebears are Getting Restless

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Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-05-30 16:43:37 UTC
Hanuman Li Tosh wrote:
Inferno is already causing more of a sub drop than Incarna.


Proof?
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#42 - 2012-05-30 16:43:57 UTC
HVAC Repairman wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:
I believe the huge alliances are actually more carebear than any of these so called hi-sec carebears.

They only do what they do when they know their risk of loss is little to none.

For example, see this quote:

Uranium 242 wrote:


Every time someone talks about invading our space I get so excited because I can get a fight right out my front door. And if they bring Titans even better cause then I get Titans kills right out ny front door. feel free to ask billymerc about headshotting VFK.


I'm not sure if people understand that in the lines of suicide ganking there is no counter. If someone chooses to suicide gank you, your ship is going to pop, there's no way to stop the pop. Whether or not the ship is tanked.

If you're saying the GSF hasn't worked hard to get where they are now, you're off your rocker and have no basic grasp of our history. And yes, there is a counter to getting ganked. In fact, there are several. Many have been mentioned already. It's just that it requires a small effort and a change in how the average miner thinks and thus is never going to happen and they complain.


No just no again, why should the goon/greifer thought police dictate how anybody else should think or play there game.

Tal


Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-05-30 16:45:13 UTC
Hanuman Li Tosh wrote:
We are now at a player level as low as that point in time.

Citation needed.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2012-05-30 16:46:39 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
Hanuman Li Tosh wrote:
Inferno is already causing more of a sub drop than Incarna.


Proof?

you see this one day i picked at random (that just so happens to be the same day every other mining scum picked, the day after d3's release) shows less people online than a year ago at that date (when d3 had not been just released)

what? look at other days? absolutely not
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2012-05-30 16:49:00 UTC
Talon SilverMouse wrote:
No just no again, why should the goon/greifer thought police dictate how anybody else should think or play there game.

Tal



why should the hawk get to dictate how the mouse can run across the field
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-05-30 16:49:45 UTC
Ya, the old "concurrent user" argument, which is fine, though obviously full of innumerable holes and alternative explanations.

However, an actual significant drop in subs is a different claim altogether, and one that requires some actual evidence.
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2012-05-30 16:51:07 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
HVAC Repairman wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:
I believe the huge alliances are actually more carebear than any of these so called hi-sec carebears.

They only do what they do when they know their risk of loss is little to none.

For example, see this quote:

Uranium 242 wrote:


Every time someone talks about invading our space I get so excited because I can get a fight right out my front door. And if they bring Titans even better cause then I get Titans kills right out ny front door. feel free to ask billymerc about headshotting VFK.


I'm not sure if people understand that in the lines of suicide ganking there is no counter. If someone chooses to suicide gank you, your ship is going to pop, there's no way to stop the pop. Whether or not the ship is tanked.

If you're saying the GSF hasn't worked hard to get where they are now, you're off your rocker and have no basic grasp of our history. And yes, there is a counter to getting ganked. In fact, there are several. Many have been mentioned already. It's just that it requires a small effort and a change in how the average miner thinks and thus is never going to happen and they complain.


No just no again, why should the goon/greifer thought police dictate how anybody else should think or play there game.

Tal


It's not "your" game. It's not "our" game. It's "the" game. Safer is not safe. Adapt or lose your stuff, it's not rocket science.

Follow me on twitter
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#48 - 2012-05-30 17:05:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

You do realize there are miners that actualy pay people to work for them?

...

How about you take some of the profit you make from mining and start using it to facilitate more emergent gameplay by recruiting people to work for you so that you can't be ganked in hi-sec.


Finally a post worth reading in this cesspool.

I have 1 question for you.

I have found out that hi sec is not conductive to hiring people like you say. How do you get that running?

First of all, Trit is somewhat less profitable than Technetium, so hiring people cuts the revenue so much that it's just smarter to downgrade to using covetors.

Second - and I really tried it - sitting watching and guarding static ships cutting roids for 8 hours a day (minimum) is not exactly the best aspiration for a merc or whatever. Not only you start getting cramps after 1 hour but when somebody actually warps in, your attention has dropped so much that you won't react in the few seconds needed for a gank.

Third, how do you prevent people to warp in 2-3 disco boats on the Orca and wipe everything?
This expecially applies to ice mining, there's no choice about where to go (i.e. secluded system) so you have to sit all day long in systems with 80-100 people in local.


Please enlighten me about the above issues.



Because dealing with gankers also involves being realistically able to do so.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#49 - 2012-05-30 17:11:21 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Darth Tickles wrote:
Hanuman Li Tosh wrote:
Inferno is already causing more of a sub drop than Incarna.
Proof?

you see this one day i picked at random (that just so happens to be the same day every other mining scum picked, the day after d3's release) shows less people online than a year ago at that date (when d3 had not been just released)

what? look at other days? absolutely not

Heh heh heh. Statistics and "random" sampling at its best.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Cutout Man
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-05-30 17:12:35 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
This is awesome, finally the carebears will feel the full power of the player driven pvp sandbox. They are already complaining en mass because they don't understand EVE.

Whenever someone tells you that if you want to pvp you should go to lo/nullsec, you know they don't comprehend EVE.

You don't seem to know anything about it either. Welcome to the tipping point.
Spikeflach
Perkone
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-05-30 17:12:39 UTC
HVAC Repairman wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:
I believe the huge alliances are actually more carebear than any of these so called hi-sec carebears.

They only do what they do when they know their risk of loss is little to none.

For example, see this quote:

Uranium 242 wrote:


Every time someone talks about invading our space I get so excited because I can get a fight right out my front door. And if they bring Titans even better cause then I get Titans kills right out ny front door. feel free to ask billymerc about headshotting VFK.


I'm not sure if people understand that in the lines of suicide ganking there is no counter. If someone chooses to suicide gank you, your ship is going to pop, there's no way to stop the pop. Whether or not the ship is tanked.

If you're saying the GSF hasn't worked hard to get where they are now, you're off your rocker and have no basic grasp of our history. And yes, there is a counter to getting ganked. In fact, there are several. Many have been mentioned already. It's just that it requires a small effort and a change in how the average miner thinks and thus is never going to happen and they complain.


I said what i said, not what you said I am saying.

And no, as soon as it comes to the point of the gank, the miner pilot cannot shoot back, counter, or otherwise stop or destroy the other ship before he is destroyed.

Its bull crap the only REAL counters suggested are not to get youself in that situation at all. It's not logical to have every known suicide ganker on your watchlist, and actually pretty impossible as i think in many threads, people train characters for the job quickly and then just recycle them.
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-05-30 17:34:34 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:
I said what i said, not what you said I am saying.

And no, as soon as it comes to the point of the gank, the miner pilot cannot shoot back, counter, or otherwise stop or destroy the other ship before he is destroyed.

Its bull crap the only REAL counters suggested are not to get youself in that situation at all. It's not logical to have every known suicide ganker on your watchlist, and actually pretty impossible as i think in many threads, people train characters for the job quickly and then just recycle them.
Yeah, sorry I put words in your mouth. When you say the biggest alliances in EVE I shouldn't have jumped to the conclusion you weren't talking about the biggest Alliance in EVE, who also happens to be the topic of discussion in every thread of the last 16 hours.

There are counters. If you properly tank, aren't AFK mining, and have a general knowledge of the game and how things work you should never be killed by a single ganker in a throw away ship. Hi-Sec miners have the best weapon on their side: CONCORD. If you can't survive until they blow the ganker up, you're not even trying to survive.

Follow me on twitter
Lister
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2012-05-30 17:42:57 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


You do realize there are miners that actualy pay people to work for them? Other miners who actually work with other miners. Indy corps that specialize in mining and work in fleets with actual support.

EVE is supposed to be an "intelligent" game, yet we got all these idiots that think they should be able to go out to a rock and mine without putting any thought into what they're doing. How about you take some of the profit you make from mining and start using it to facilitate more emergent gameplay by recruiting people to work for you so that you can't be ganked in hi-sec.


Oh wait, it's easier to cry about it.




Careful there - you actually made an intelligent observation and thats not in keeping is it !
Serene Repose
#54 - 2012-05-30 17:44:20 UTC
Wow. The MasterNerd fan club signs in. Any cookies at this meeting?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Spikeflach
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-05-30 17:55:29 UTC
HVAC Repairman wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:
I said what i said, not what you said I am saying.

And no, as soon as it comes to the point of the gank, the miner pilot cannot shoot back, counter, or otherwise stop or destroy the other ship before he is destroyed.

Its bull crap the only REAL counters suggested are not to get youself in that situation at all. It's not logical to have every known suicide ganker on your watchlist, and actually pretty impossible as i think in many threads, people train characters for the job quickly and then just recycle them.
Yeah, sorry I put words in your mouth. When you say the biggest alliances in EVE I shouldn't have jumped to the conclusion you weren't talking about the biggest Alliance in EVE, who also happens to be the topic of discussion in every thread of the last 16 hours.

There are counters. If you properly tank, aren't AFK mining, and have a general knowledge of the game and how things work you should never be killed by a single ganker in a throw away ship. Hi-Sec miners have the best weapon on their side: CONCORD. If you can't survive until they blow the ganker up, you're not even trying to survive.


Even a proper fit tank can be ganked, and it still can't essentially "fight back" like i said in my previous post. (And i believe it only takes 3 destroyers from what i hear?)

Concord can't save anyone from a suicide gank. Either you are popped, or the suicide wasn't suicidy enough.

What I said about the large alliances stands for all large alliances.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#56 - 2012-05-30 18:09:55 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Talon SilverMouse wrote:
No just no again, why should the goon/greifer thought police dictate how anybody else should think or play there game.

Tal



why should the hawk get to dictate how the mouse can run across the field




Mate hate to tell you this your not a hawk (unless your talking about the bird brained bit P). And using unthinking animals as an example, meh

Tal


Knug LiDi
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#57 - 2012-05-30 18:19:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Knug LiDi
HVAC Repairman wrote:
[
There are counters. If you properly tank, aren't AFK mining, and have a general knowledge of the game and how things work you should never be killed by a single ganker in a throw away ship. Hi-Sec miners have the best weapon on their side: CONCORD. If you can't survive until they blow the ganker up, you're not even trying to survive.


Crap.

Forum editing ate my post.

short form:

single ship completely agree. Small gang = dead hulk 100% of the time.

I agree that no ship should be 100% from a small gang (intelligently used), but the field is not even atm.

My solution:

Add exhumer/barge-only module. No warp ins within 75 kms, even fleet members.

Gankers now need to cross short space at speed to catch miners at their keyboards, no more zero warp ins provided by other ships or cloaked ones. AFK miners will still die.

Ships in defense of the miners now have a few seconds to respond.

haulers are now the exposed ships, while they have to travel to pick up the ore from miners.

so, shepherding sheep now a real role to be filled, afk miners will still die, and now its a thrilling, challenging race for the predators to be swift and deadly enough to catch the sheep.

If only we could fall into a woman's arms

without falling into her hands
Hanuman Li Tosh
Nullbear Protection Act of 2019
#58 - 2012-05-30 18:29:01 UTC
Last year when the PCU charts looked bad there was ll kinds of speculation as to what it meant. At fanfest this year CCP fessed up and said it almost broke them. Its at the same level now.

As far as data beyond PCU, look at peak play times. PCU is almost always part Euro part US. GMT tz peak is down, Us peak is down.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#59 - 2012-05-30 18:37:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Talon SilverHawk
HVAC Repairman wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
HVAC Repairman wrote:
Spikeflach wrote:
I believe the huge alliances are actually more carebear than any of these so called hi-sec carebears.

They only do what they do when they know their risk of loss is little to none.

For example, see this quote:

Uranium 242 wrote:


Every time someone talks about invading our space I get so excited because I can get a fight right out my front door. And if they bring Titans even better cause then I get Titans kills right out ny front door. feel free to ask billymerc about headshotting VFK.


I'm not sure if people understand that in the lines of suicide ganking there is no counter. If someone chooses to suicide gank you, your ship is going to pop, there's no way to stop the pop. Whether or not the ship is tanked.

If you're saying the GSF hasn't worked hard to get where they are now, you're off your rocker and have no basic grasp of our history. And yes, there is a counter to getting ganked. In fact, there are several. Many have been mentioned already. It's just that it requires a small effort and a change in how the average miner thinks and thus is never going to happen and they complain.


No just no again, why should the goon/greifer thought police dictate how anybody else should think or play there game.

Tal


It's not "your" game. It's not "our" game. It's "the" game. Safer is not safe. Adapt or lose your stuff, it's not rocket science.


But it is there game to play within the rules the way they want to, they pay for it same as you. Im not saying hi sec should be safe but at the moment its out of balance. Also to many dicks around that get off on trying making other ppl misrable.

If its not my game what's meant by "We don't want to ruin the game, we want to ruin your game" ? say's it all really.


Tal
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-05-30 18:40:44 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
This is awesome, finally the carebears will feel the full power of the player driven pvp sandbox. They are already complaining en mass because they don't understand EVE.

Whenever someone tells you that if you want to pvp you should go to lo/nullsec, you know they don't comprehend EVE.


You are really missing something in RL, don't you?

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !