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Remove ore fields
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Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#1 - 2012-05-30 05:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Nendail Smith
Get rid of ore fields from the game. Pump up the number of grav sites. leaving the ore fields in .08 and higher, and take the rest of them out. Spawn the same number of sites in each system daily. IE if the system has 6 fields now, set it up to spawn six fields a day, but make it so you have to prob them down.

Better yet, combine the total number of fields in a constellation and then allow that many to spawn in the constellation, when one goes away, it reappears someplace else in the constellation (likely a different system). Lets get miners moving around. Give all sites a 10 day despawn so sites pushed into low sec will eventually despawn on their own and move.
Daeva Teresa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-05-30 06:16:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Daeva Teresa
As it stands now, you can mine low value ores withoud need to train scanning skills for a few months. Or you can invest that training time and then scan for better ores (or have a friend). I think this system is good. Also given the yield/hour of miner vs missioner, also the (now) nonstoping hulkagedon, you really don't need to make it harder for miners.

Note that im a missioner (curently moving to W-space exploration) that laughs at minners.

Also WTF is an ore filed, who uses that nomenclature instead of roid fields or just belts?

CCP really please dont use Upgraded, Limited, Experimental and Prototype in item names. It sounds like the item is actually worse than basic meta 1 item. Use Calibrated, Enhanced, Optimized and Upgraded. Its really easy to understand that the item is better than meta 1 and its also in alphabetic order.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-05-30 09:35:37 UTC
Nendail Smith wrote:
Get rid of ore fields from the game. Pump up the number of grav sites. leaving the ore fields in .08 and higher, and take the rest of them out. Spawn the same number of sites in each system daily. IE if the system has 6 fields now, set it up to spawn six fields a day, but make it so you have to prob them down.

Better yet, combine the total number of fields in a constellation and then allow that many to spawn in the constellation, when one goes away, it reappears someplace else in the constellation (likely a different system). Lets get miners moving around. Give all sites a 10 day despawn so sites pushed into low sec will eventually despawn on their own and move.



Why do you want belt ratting to be removed? And why do you want to force miners to learn to probe?
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-05-30 09:45:58 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:

Why do you want belt ratting to be removed? And why do you want to force miners to learn to probe?


Out of pure resentment I bet...

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Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#5 - 2012-05-30 16:34:31 UTC
Colonel Xaven wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

Why do you want belt ratting to be removed? And why do you want to force miners to learn to probe?


Out of pure resentment I bet...


You guys have absolutely no brains. You must be miners who think everyone is out to get you. Do you realize if the fields were gone, and you had to probe down your fields, that your dscan would pick up combat/core probes prior to a gank happening?

Did you not realize also that the warp in spots would not be straight to where you sit and mine, the rocks in grav sites are spread all over?

Yeah, I'm an old time miner with a ton of resentment.

In addition, the grav sites spawn rats so once someone had the bookmarks they could still rat. It wouldn't wipe out ratting, and it wouldn't make miners invincible but it would help them see an attack coming. It would make ganking more work for the 20 seconds of pleasure they get from it.

Of course not being a miner any more, or into ganking, my point was the grav sites would move around adding logistical issues and add an element of work/fun to the game.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#6 - 2012-05-30 16:44:22 UTC
Hmm, the old "You disagree with my idea, therefore you must be stupid and paranoid" defense. Not quite original, especially in a thread like this.

Danika's point is perfectly valid, it would kill belt ratting and cause hassle for miners for no real benefits. Hidden belts are already out there for anyone who wants to mine in one, no one is forced to use belts. Yet people still do use belts; maybe there's a reason there are still people in belts. The option is already out there, don't try and force your preferred mining location on everyone else, especially when it completely kills another profession that you overlooked.
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#7 - 2012-05-30 17:14:42 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Hmm, the old "You disagree with my idea, therefore you must be stupid and paranoid" defense. Not quite original, especially in a thread like this.

Danika's point is perfectly valid, it would kill belt ratting and cause hassle for miners for no real benefits. Hidden belts are already out there for anyone who wants to mine in one, no one is forced to use belts. Yet people still do use belts; maybe there's a reason there are still people in belts. The option is already out there, don't try and force your preferred mining location on everyone else, especially when it completely kills another profession that you overlooked.


Yeah it's because I was disagreed with LOL. Whatever. I don't mine anymore anyways so I don't care what they do with the mining stuff. Was just an idea.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-05-30 18:26:40 UTC
Nendail Smith wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Hmm, the old "You disagree with my idea, therefore you must be stupid and paranoid" defense. Not quite original, especially in a thread like this.

Danika's point is perfectly valid, it would kill belt ratting and cause hassle for miners for no real benefits. Hidden belts are already out there for anyone who wants to mine in one, no one is forced to use belts. Yet people still do use belts; maybe there's a reason there are still people in belts. The option is already out there, don't try and force your preferred mining location on everyone else, especially when it completely kills another profession that you overlooked.


Yeah it's because I was disagreed with LOL. Whatever. I don't mine anymore anyways so I don't care what they do with the mining stuff. Was just an idea.

if you don't care, don't post, because your post will INEVITABLY be filled with apathetic absurdity.
I used to be an industrialist, now I'm a wormholer. scaning down the sites in a system every day to see wahts there is annoying enough, but having to do it multiple times a day because "oops, already a mining corp eating this field" would cause many miners to rage-quit.

This system however COULD work if there was new bookamrks, so bookamrks coulda ctually be designated by WHATis bookmarked, like an roange icon for a grav, yellow for a LADAR, and the BM's would despawn when the field does, this way explorer's could sell mining rights to roid fields on contracts.

also maybe make the belts gigantic and last for a week ro two, so that the amrket can eb active with mining right buy/sell orders. (by mining rights, i eman the knowledge that the belt is there, giving you implied permission to mine there, anyone could scan and mine there,and an infinite number of people could use a site, but they woudl need a scanner to find it).

in short, this idea COULD work, but not without a massive rework of the exploration proffessiona dn bookamrking to make them more efficient/informative (not easier, just better setup), and in the end, this would make exploration,a dn possible mining, significantly more profitable.
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#9 - 2012-05-30 18:34:06 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Nendail Smith wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Hmm, the old "You disagree with my idea, therefore you must be stupid and paranoid" defense. Not quite original, especially in a thread like this.

Danika's point is perfectly valid, it would kill belt ratting and cause hassle for miners for no real benefits. Hidden belts are already out there for anyone who wants to mine in one, no one is forced to use belts. Yet people still do use belts; maybe there's a reason there are still people in belts. The option is already out there, don't try and force your preferred mining location on everyone else, especially when it completely kills another profession that you overlooked.


Yeah it's because I was disagreed with LOL. Whatever. I don't mine anymore anyways so I don't care what they do with the mining stuff. Was just an idea.

if you don't care, don't post, because your post will INEVITABLY be filled with apathetic absurdity.
I used to be an industrialist, now I'm a wormholer. scaning down the sites in a system every day to see wahts there is annoying enough, but having to do it multiple times a day because "oops, already a mining corp eating this field" would cause many miners to rage-quit.

This system however COULD work if there was new bookamrks, so bookamrks coulda ctually be designated by WHATis bookmarked, like an roange icon for a grav, yellow for a LADAR, and the BM's would despawn when the field does, this way explorer's could sell mining rights to roid fields on contracts.

also maybe make the belts gigantic and last for a week ro two, so that the amrket can eb active with mining right buy/sell orders. (by mining rights, i eman the knowledge that the belt is there, giving you implied permission to mine there, anyone could scan and mine there,and an infinite number of people could use a site, but they woudl need a scanner to find it).

in short, this idea COULD work, but not without a massive rework of the exploration proffessiona dn bookamrking to make them more efficient/informative (not easier, just better setup), and in the end, this would make exploration,a dn possible mining, significantly more profitable.


I live in wormholes now too. Doesn't take much effort to scan down the system every day. And I don't find it annoying at all. It would be valuable if the sigs in a given system didn't change with every down time.

Sites lasting longer wouldn't be a bad thing I guess, the down side would be when they got pushed into a low sec, it would take longer to push them back to high sec. By default that will likely cause a lot of tears.

Frankly I like wormlife far better than high/low/null sec and I'd be equally happy if they ripped out half the low sec systems and added more wormholes. :P
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-05-30 19:21:17 UTC
Nendail Smith wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Nendail Smith wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Hmm, the old "You disagree with my idea, therefore you must be stupid and paranoid" defense. Not quite original, especially in a thread like this.

Danika's point is perfectly valid, it would kill belt ratting and cause hassle for miners for no real benefits. Hidden belts are already out there for anyone who wants to mine in one, no one is forced to use belts. Yet people still do use belts; maybe there's a reason there are still people in belts. The option is already out there, don't try and force your preferred mining location on everyone else, especially when it completely kills another profession that you overlooked.


Yeah it's because I was disagreed with LOL. Whatever. I don't mine anymore anyways so I don't care what they do with the mining stuff. Was just an idea.

if you don't care, don't post, because your post will INEVITABLY be filled with apathetic absurdity.
I used to be an industrialist, now I'm a wormholer. scaning down the sites in a system every day to see wahts there is annoying enough, but having to do it multiple times a day because "oops, already a mining corp eating this field" would cause many miners to rage-quit.

This system however COULD work if there was new bookamrks, so bookamrks coulda ctually be designated by WHATis bookmarked, like an roange icon for a grav, yellow for a LADAR, and the BM's would despawn when the field does, this way explorer's could sell mining rights to roid fields on contracts.

also maybe make the belts gigantic and last for a week ro two, so that the amrket can eb active with mining right buy/sell orders. (by mining rights, i eman the knowledge that the belt is there, giving you implied permission to mine there, anyone could scan and mine there,and an infinite number of people could use a site, but they woudl need a scanner to find it).

in short, this idea COULD work, but not without a massive rework of the exploration proffessiona dn bookamrking to make them more efficient/informative (not easier, just better setup), and in the end, this would make exploration,a dn possible mining, significantly more profitable.


I live in wormholes now too. Doesn't take much effort to scan down the system every day. And I don't find it annoying at all. It would be valuable if the sigs in a given system didn't change with every down time.

Sites lasting longer wouldn't be a bad thing I guess, the down side would be when they got pushed into a low sec, it would take longer to push them back to high sec. By default that will likely cause a lot of tears.

Frankly I like wormlife far better than high/low/null sec and I'd be equally happy if they ripped out half the low sec systems and added more wormholes. :P

i was kind of hoping you would comment on the second half of my post, because seriosuly, your diea isnt BAD, just that it COULD NOT be implemented by itself.
Callic Veratar
#11 - 2012-05-30 19:25:24 UTC
Nendail Smith wrote:
You guys have absolutely no brains. You must be miners who think everyone is out to get you. Do you realize if the fields were gone, and you had to probe down your fields, that your dscan would pick up combat/core probes prior to a gank happening?


If everyone has to scan down belts, wouldn't that mean that most belts would have scan probes?
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#12 - 2012-05-30 20:11:56 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Nendail Smith wrote:
You guys have absolutely no brains. You must be miners who think everyone is out to get you. Do you realize if the fields were gone, and you had to probe down your fields, that your dscan would pick up combat/core probes prior to a gank happening?


If everyone has to scan down belts, wouldn't that mean that most belts would have scan probes?


Would depend on where you mine. If you are afraid to venture very far from trade hubs, yes that is what it would mean. But if you're willing to get into quieter areas then a person coming into system wouldn't have you running, but the probes on descan would.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2012-05-30 20:59:15 UTC
Nendail Smith wrote:
Colonel Xaven wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

Why do you want belt ratting to be removed? And why do you want to force miners to learn to probe?


Out of pure resentment I bet...


You guys have absolutely no brains. You must be miners who think everyone is out to get you. Do you realize if the fields were gone, and you had to probe down your fields, that your dscan would pick up combat/core probes prior to a gank happening?

Did you not realize also that the warp in spots would not be straight to where you sit and mine, the rocks in grav sites are spread all over?

Yeah, I'm an old time miner with a ton of resentment.

In addition, the grav sites spawn rats so once someone had the bookmarks they could still rat. It wouldn't wipe out ratting, and it wouldn't make miners invincible but it would help them see an attack coming. It would make ganking more work for the 20 seconds of pleasure they get from it.

Of course not being a miner any more, or into ganking, my point was the grav sites would move around adding logistical issues and add an element of work/fun to the game.



This is a combat character, with virtually no probe skills. I wouldn't be able to belt rat.

My industial alt has even less probe skills. She wouldn't be able to find belts to mine in.

in null, low or WH, there would be so many blue probes on the dscan that you'd never see the hostile ones coming.
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#14 - 2012-05-31 16:50:09 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Nendail Smith wrote:
Colonel Xaven wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

Why do you want belt ratting to be removed? And why do you want to force miners to learn to probe?


Out of pure resentment I bet...


You guys have absolutely no brains. You must be miners who think everyone is out to get you. Do you realize if the fields were gone, and you had to probe down your fields, that your dscan would pick up combat/core probes prior to a gank happening?

Did you not realize also that the warp in spots would not be straight to where you sit and mine, the rocks in grav sites are spread all over?

Yeah, I'm an old time miner with a ton of resentment.

In addition, the grav sites spawn rats so once someone had the bookmarks they could still rat. It wouldn't wipe out ratting, and it wouldn't make miners invincible but it would help them see an attack coming. It would make ganking more work for the 20 seconds of pleasure they get from it.

Of course not being a miner any more, or into ganking, my point was the grav sites would move around adding logistical issues and add an element of work/fun to the game.



This is a combat character, with virtually no probe skills. I wouldn't be able to belt rat.

My industial alt has even less probe skills. She wouldn't be able to find belts to mine in.

in null, low or WH, there would be so many blue probes on the dscan that you'd never see the hostile ones coming.


Ok, I concede... not enough people know how to play the game without having a ton of stuff made easier than it needs to be. I retract the idea.
Jackal Datapaw
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-05-31 17:17:29 UTC
I don't think the original poster thought out his plan all the way, so I shall explain something now, and it not even that complicated.

What you are proposing now is this. You are proposing to give people on certain time zones the advantage over others. How might you ask? Well it simple, typically hidden belts only regrow after downtime, right afterdown time it becomes a feeding frenzy on who gets the best spots, and resources. Now, here how the timezone comes in, the down time, is typically before the American prime time, where people can come one, relax from work and do what they do best. To probe and mine. So what happens is people on certain time zones are forced to mine in .8 and above if they are yet in a good 0.0 sec Corp, or force an corp in .8 only sec due to the fact they can't yet afford to do profitable mining in low or zero sec where people protect the **** out of all their stuff.

So this idea, it rather idiotic.

commonly suggest cloaking and local ideas

Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-05-31 18:00:05 UTC
Nendail Smith wrote:
Get rid of ore fields from the game. Pump up the number of grav sites. leaving the ore fields in .08 and higher, and take the rest of them out. Spawn the same number of sites in each system daily. IE if the system has 6 fields now, set it up to spawn six fields a day, but make it so you have to prob them down.

Better yet, combine the total number of fields in a constellation and then allow that many to spawn in the constellation, when one goes away, it reappears someplace else in the constellation (likely a different system). Lets get miners moving around. Give all sites a 10 day despawn so sites pushed into low sec will eventually despawn on their own and move.


I'm not really in favor of this as a general change.. we'll end up with system garbage in the form of more wrecks that under your system cannot be easily salvaged by roaming trash collectors.. (I doubt a salvage guy is going to train scanning so that he can grab a few wreaks from a hidden belt)

That said I wouldn't mind more grav sites to find.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#17 - 2012-05-31 18:08:30 UTC
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
I don't think the original poster thought out his plan all the way, so I shall explain something now, and it not even that complicated.

What you are proposing now is this. You are proposing to give people on certain time zones the advantage over others. How might you ask? Well it simple, typically hidden belts only regrow after downtime, right afterdown time it becomes a feeding frenzy on who gets the best spots, and resources. Now, here how the timezone comes in, the down time, is typically before the American prime time, where people can come one, relax from work and do what they do best. To probe and mine. So what happens is people on certain time zones are forced to mine in .8 and above if they are yet in a good 0.0 sec Corp, or force an corp in .8 only sec due to the fact they can't yet afford to do profitable mining in low or zero sec where people protect the **** out of all their stuff.

So this idea, it rather idiotic.


LOL My post is idiotic? You should read yours again, after you re-read the original idea. The premise of someone having an advantage over the current system is silly since there would be no fewer belts than there are right now, they just would move around within the constilation rather than being glued to a system and a set coordinate.

All belts only respawn or grow at down time. Having to probe down the belts would change nothing about the availability of ore to people based on time zones that doesn't already exist.
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#18 - 2012-05-31 18:09:47 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Nendail Smith wrote:
Get rid of ore fields from the game. Pump up the number of grav sites. leaving the ore fields in .08 and higher, and take the rest of them out. Spawn the same number of sites in each system daily. IE if the system has 6 fields now, set it up to spawn six fields a day, but make it so you have to prob them down.

Better yet, combine the total number of fields in a constellation and then allow that many to spawn in the constellation, when one goes away, it reappears someplace else in the constellation (likely a different system). Lets get miners moving around. Give all sites a 10 day despawn so sites pushed into low sec will eventually despawn on their own and move.


I'm not really in favor of this as a general change.. we'll end up with system garbage in the form of more wrecks that under your system cannot be easily salvaged by roaming trash collectors.. (I doubt a salvage guy is going to train scanning so that he can grab a few wreaks from a hidden belt)

That said I wouldn't mind more grav sites to find.


The salvage argument is actually a good one.. finally. But still they could probe them down. Besides that, to salvage, it's better to probe down someone in their mission rather than just to salvage the silly belt rats anyways. :P
Jackal Datapaw
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-05-31 18:46:40 UTC
I don't think you ever mined or probe before have you?

A good prober takes anywhere to 5 second to 3 minutes to find a good site.

The average hulk equiped with a Strip Miner II will pull 1080 m3 worth of ore from a rock (this is not taking in account bonuses of hulk, and or orca.)

The average cycle time is 3 minutes. once again, not taking in account of orca or pilot bonuses.

the average orca holds 50000 m3 in ore.

A good fleet of lets say 6 hulks will crunch on average. 129600 m3 worth of ore and hour.

Downtime starts at noon GTM, that is 8:00 am for the eastern time zone in america. People are heading to work, or in work, the typical american works till 3 to 5 pm. so lets take the latest time. I shall also now convert into military time just for your math convince. 17:00 - 08:00 = 9, so that means, lets say half the player base online in those 9 hours are miners. So on a rounded number 15,000 players, so thats right, that would be 15 THOUSAND players all hunting down these belt

the average starting ore on each roid is anywhere from 3 thousand ore, to 39 thousand (based on an 3 year old formula that could be wrong on the updated eve.)

You know what that means though right? Of course you would, well that is if you actually mine, but a good well spread out corp can find said hidden bets rather quickly, burn through them right after down time. Giving people that log in at a later time, due to you know, people that have a life and work for a living, and solo miners will still be stuck in .8 sec mining in those massive belts, cause you know, the average grav site tends to be 3x smaller (in terms of ore) then the average belt.

Now to post on your post that you claim that I did read. Time zone does affect availability, if you do not know that basic thing, then it not my fault you don't have the basics for common sense.

commonly suggest cloaking and local ideas

Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#20 - 2012-05-31 18:54:38 UTC
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
I don't think you ever mined or probe before have you?

A good prober takes anywhere to 5 second to 3 minutes to find a good site.

The average hulk equiped with a Strip Miner II will pull 1080 m3 worth of ore from a rock (this is not taking in account bonuses of hulk, and or orca.)

The average cycle time is 3 minutes. once again, not taking in account of orca or pilot bonuses.

the average orca holds 50000 m3 in ore.

A good fleet of lets say 6 hulks will crunch on average. 129600 m3 worth of ore and hour.

Downtime starts at noon GTM, that is 8:00 am for the eastern time zone in america. People are heading to work, or in work, the typical american works till 3 to 5 pm. so lets take the latest time. I shall also now convert into military time just for your math convince. 17:00 - 08:00 = 9, so that means, lets say half the player base online in those 9 hours are miners. So on a rounded number 15,000 players, so thats right, that would be 15 THOUSAND players all hunting down these belt

the average starting ore on each roid is anywhere from 3 thousand ore, to 39 thousand (based on an 3 year old formula that could be wrong on the updated eve.)

You know what that means though right? Of course you would, well that is if you actually mine, but a good well spread out corp can find said hidden bets rather quickly, burn through them right after down time. Giving people that log in at a later time, due to you know, people that have a life and work for a living, and solo miners will still be stuck in .8 sec mining in those massive belts, cause you know, the average grav site tends to be 3x smaller (in terms of ore) then the average belt.

Now to post on your post that you claim that I did read. Time zone does affect availability, if you do not know that basic thing, then it not my fault you don't have the basics for common sense.


I pulled ore for over 4 years, ran an in game company doing it and have amassed billions of isk running that company before giving it up. If you're only pulling 1000 m3 a minute your skills suck or you don't fit decent. Wtih my own fleet of toons I could clear 6 ore fields per day in quiet, well grown systems (well grown for high-sec anyways). And currently I probe every single day since when I gave up mining/industry I moved into wormholes...

But yeah, No experience at all.

I don't care about all your great numbers my friend. the original idea does not give any time zone more advantage than another in any way different from what already exists under the current system. I'm sorry you can't seem to understand that.
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