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[UPDATE #4] Hisec miners, unite!
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Sarton Wells
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-05-30 12:13:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarton Wells
Bunnie Hop wrote:
I obviously enjoy the genre


You obviously don't. By definition the genre promotes such events as hulkageddon. If you enjoy the genre then you'd applaud what the goons are doing. I'm a part-time miner. I've lost a couple covetors, I've found a way to mine relatively safely and now I don't lose covetors.

People don't whine because they can't mine in hulks. People whine because they don't want to put any effort when mining in hulks. And some people whine because they like to whine.
Lustralis
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-05-30 12:17:22 UTC
Sarton Wells wrote:

People don't whine because they can't mine in hulks. People whine because they don't want to put any effort when mining in hulks. And some people whine because they like to whine.


Effort? Have you ever mined in a Hulk? All that dragging and dropping, swapping crystals and so on is a giant pain in the buttox. Here's my solution to staying safe when mining:

(1) Buy large grav sites from explorers in high-sec so at least you need to be probed out.
(2) Invite concord to come and visit as quite often I'm randomly attacked by a player called Vaguely Annoying.

(1)(a) Make sure you aren't buying the large grav BM from an alt of the very people who want to gank you (trust!)
(2)(a) Vaguely Annoying loses sec every time he attacks anyone with his civilian gatling laz0r.

That is all.
Ned Black
Driders
#43 - 2012-05-30 12:18:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ned Black
Tatjana Braun wrote:
Knight Cabbage wrote:
Tatjana Braun wrote:
For all High sec Miner:

At 0.0, there is no Hulkageddon....


Don't the kills there count, too ? High-sec gives one at least a warm fuzzy feeling seeing a thrasher explode....


High sec makes me paranoid. Hundret people in local and you don't no, are there enymies ore not...
At 0.0, its sometime hard, but i know, whos my Friend and whos not.


Which is EXACTLY why local should be removed in nullsec. If you are in high risk space then there really should be high risk if you want to do just about anything... not like the current PvE heaven nullspace really is.

What they should do is

Remove local so that the nullbears can actually feel the fear of being ganked... as an added bonus that would fix the AFK cloaker problem as well. Suddenly you would have to fear the active cloaker and not the one that is AFK.
Remove automatic mails about POS/SOV structures being attacked. If you dont have people present that can detect the activity you should be able to sneak around and smash whoever in their faces.
Remove automatic mails about hostile POSes being put in place.

Suddenly you nullbears would have to experience a bit of that risk and no safe place in eve you love to talk about... but for some strange reason you never seem to like any idea that makes YOUR risk any greater... very strange...

Julii Hakaari wrote:
No. What high sec miner should do is fight back. It's not that hard bunching together a lot of mining corporations within one alliance and utilize this power to declare war on those whom threatens the will of high sec miners.

Listen, listen, listen! This is not a hard thing to do! No matter what we think about GSF and their allies, they have this power to dictate because they took it - and you can take it too; their liberty is not greater than yours. Imagine the feeling of you and your 200 high sec miners paying a visit to a local 50 man corporation with another 130 in their pirate alliance; imagine the feeling when you stand victorious on the battlefield filled with frozen corpses - and the pirates are pirates no more.

But, yeah, sure. I guess a chat works too.


Ehhh... declaring war on GSF or any other major 0.0 alliance would be kind of stupid really... I always like guerilla warfare much better... what they should do is to go out into nullsec en masse, spread out all over and sit AFK cloaked for weeks on end just to **** the locals off. Basicly shut down more or less all PvE content in nullsec. Oh, someone doing PI... kill their hauler and cloak up... We can see the amount of tears a single AFK cloaker can produce... imagin thousands of them.... Im not even sure I can imagine the amount of nullbear tears that would cause... Not to mention the amount of "NERF AFK CLOAKING!!!1!!1!1!" threads in this forum.
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#44 - 2012-05-30 12:20:20 UTC
Sarton Wells wrote:
Bunnie Hop wrote:
I obviously enjoy the genre


You obviously don't. By definition the genre promotes such events as hulkageddon. If you enjoy the genre then you'd applaud what the goons are doing. I'm a part-time miner. I've lost a couple covetors, I've found a way to mine relatively safely and now I don't lose covetors.

People don't whine because they can't mine in hulks. People whine because they don't want to put any effort when mining in hulks. And some people whine because they like to whine.


Hulkageddon as an event was good, but not as a nonstop feature. It is funny how anyone who has an opposing idea on this forum is labeled as a whiner.
Lustralis
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-05-30 12:22:50 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:

Hulkageddon as an event was good, but not as a nonstop feature. It is funny how anyone who has an opposing idea on this forum is labeled as a whiner.


It's fun for a month, but continuing it indefinitely is kind-of like that annoying little ***** who keeps telling the same joke over and over. It's just not funny any more. I'm guessing if it does continue then CCP will have to make some changes to better protect miners.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#46 - 2012-05-30 12:27:17 UTC
Ned Black wrote:


What they should do is

Remove local so that the nullbears can actually feel the fear of being ganked... as an added bonus that would fix the AFK cloaker problem as well. Suddenly you would have to fear the active cloaker and not the one that is AFK.
Remove automatic mails about POS/SOV structures being attacked. If you dont have people present that can detect the activity you should be able to sneak around and smash whoever in their faces.
Remove automatic mails about hostile POSes being put in place.


No way it'll happen. They want hi sec to become like a giant Amamake but you will be burned on a stake if you propose their home to become more dangerous than 1.0 sec.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#47 - 2012-05-30 12:30:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Julii Hakaari wrote:
No. What high sec miner should do is fight back. It's not that hard bunching together a lot of mining corporations within one alliance and utilize this power to declare war on those whom threatens the will of high sec miners.

Listen, listen, listen! This is not a hard thing to do! No matter what we think about GSF and their allies, they have this power to dictate because they took it - and you can take it too; their liberty is not greater than yours.


They own the moons, they provide the very T2 mineral your ship is made of. You have a bunch of low SP noobs only trained in industry skills. Some of GS even work in CCP now.

And you pretend to fight back? Good luck.

Had it been the past, that is when you faced a 10 men hi sec PvP corp, then you could fight back. But you can't fight vs 10000 who already won EvE.

Those who could be a treat like BoB and similar gave up and quit.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Starsplash
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-05-30 12:31:26 UTC
I dont mind tolerating this for a month or even 2, but permanent? This games isn't that fun, but still interesting enough to keep playing as long as I can afford the plex.

Really man... if you wanna pvp, thats what nullsec/low sec and Wh space is for.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-05-30 12:32:32 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
... "hulkageddon is irrelevant" nonsense


This, against the OP's last point, made me grin.

Behold the underlying truth. Blink
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-05-30 12:34:46 UTC
if you check the "have you played eve before?" box in the CCP application and do a followup check in the hi-sec mining category it automatically disqualifies you for every job avvailable except custodial service

it would be p. cool if the CCP janitors have net nicknames too

Follow me on twitter
Julii Hakaari
Hakaari Inc.
#51 - 2012-05-30 12:36:18 UTC
Ned Black wrote:
Ehhh... declaring war on GSF or any other major 0.0 alliance would be kind of stupid really... I always like guerilla warfare much better... what they should do is to go out into nullsec en masse, spread out all over and sit AFK cloaked for weeks on end just to **** the locals off. Basicly shut down more or less all PvE content in nullsec. Oh, someone doing PI... kill their hauler and cloak up... We can see the amount of tears a single AFK cloaker can produce... imagin thousands of them.... Im not even sure I can imagine the amount of nullbear tears that would cause... Not to mention the amount of "NERF AFK CLOAKING!!!1!!1!1!" threads in this forum.

I of course didn't mean declaring war on GSF; that will come in due time. I'm talking about declaring war on those poor enough to hunt down 10 hulks to get 100m.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
They own the moons, they provide the very T2 mineral your ship is made of. You have a bunch of low SP noobs only trained in industry skills. Some of GS even work in CCP now.

And you pretend to fight back? Good luck.

Had it been the past, that is a 10 men hi sec PvP corp, then you could fight back. But you can't fight vs 10000 who already won EvE.

Those who could be a treat like BoB and similar gave up and quit.

You don't fight GSF. You fight the pirate corporations who licks their asses as if they were made of gold.

Or you do like me and move to a wormhole where the mining, the PI, the rats and the Russians all loot better than high sec. The point of my post was to make you understand that your freedom is not half as limited by goons as it is by yourself. You have a lot of angry miners and you think you can't build an alliance, make them train pvp-skills for 60- 80 days, and then fight back?

Are. You. Kidding. Me?

"Completely un-phased? You think I'm totally lacking in any phasing? The idea that I'm anything less than half-phased I actually find offensive. It greatly phases me."
Sarton Wells
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-05-30 12:39:07 UTC
Lustralis wrote:

(1) Buy large grav sites from explorers in high-sec so at least you need to be probed out.
(2) Invite concord to come and visit as quite often I'm randomly attacked by a player called Vaguely Annoying.

(1)(a) Make sure you aren't buying the large grav BM from an alt of the very people who want to gank you (trust!)
(2)(a) Vaguely Annoying loses sec every time he attacks anyone with his civilian gatling laz0r.

That is all.




And most people don't bother doing even that. Which is why I said they don't want to put any effort when mining in a hulk.

Quote:
Hulkageddon as an event was good, but not as a nonstop feature. It is funny how anyone who has an opposing idea on this forum is labeled as a whiner.


An event doesn't need to have a certain time limit. It could go on for years. That's why eve is a great game. When an event that disrupts leveling activity happens in, say, WoW, what do people do? Whine about it. And Blizzard cuts the event short. When the same thing happens in eve people learn to live with it and that makes for a better experience playing the game.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#53 - 2012-05-30 12:42:24 UTC
Julii Hakaari wrote:

You don't fight GSF. You fight the pirate corporations who licks their asses as if they were made of gold.


You kill one, 10 more will come, like the herds of zombies in class B movies.


Julii Hakaari wrote:

Or you do like me and move to a wormhole where the mining, the PI, the rats and the Russians all loot better than high sec. The point of my post was to make you understand that your freedom is not half as limited by goons as it is by yourself. You have a lot of angry miners and you think you can't build an alliance, make them train pvp-skills for 60- 80 days, and then fight back?

Are. You. Kidding. Me?


I have been both in 0.0 and in WHs. I don't have the time for neither any more.
Nor I care enough about EvE to fight the David against Goliath thing.

If I had to choose between having to change my playstyle and quitting EvE, I would do the latter even today.
I'll play their sandbox the day they pay my subs.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Julii Hakaari
Hakaari Inc.
#54 - 2012-05-30 12:50:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Julii Hakaari
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
You kill one, 10 more will come, like the herds of zombies in class B movies.

Fighting back is never about winning; it's about fighting for a cause. Imagine WW2 with the resistance groups within Germany. Do you think they thought they could win? Of course not, but they fought back because they had a cause to fight for. The same principle can be applied here. Do you believe you have the right to play the game your way? Then do it! Don't ask favors from God (or CCP) because even if God would give you said favors, it would feel much better if you got these favors yourself.

It's the dream we fight for; that we have a birthright to claim a certain part of New Eden.

I don't usually say this because it's not a valid argument, but if your play-style is a style which relies on complete safety from gankers, then EVE isn't a game for you. I do recommend Entropia Universe which with its RCE-economy and pve-content is a valid substitute to EVE.

"Completely un-phased? You think I'm totally lacking in any phasing? The idea that I'm anything less than half-phased I actually find offensive. It greatly phases me."
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-05-30 13:08:23 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:


This explains everything:

We’re seeing ever-more trash fits in EVE and “hey guyz i got blown up this is unpossible” forum rage -...


That's quite the unsupported assertion there. The kind of idea you found a religion around.

Gotta have faith! Lol
TheBig Bukowsky
High Safety
#56 - 2012-05-30 13:10:18 UTC
Updated with some starting steps until any involved bloke would want to take over this.
TheBig Bukowsky
High Safety
#57 - 2012-05-30 13:13:25 UTC
Also, this isn't a thread about Gankers vs miners, this is about helping them to stand up and use the tools they have to get over this situation.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-05-30 13:36:54 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:
What I oppose is one large alliance dictating the terms on which a game is going to be played and all the brainless wonders who cheer them on. Who is Mittani (other than a spoiled egocentric *******) to tell people how they will play Eve from now on? Alliances should be more limited in size so that no one wields as much power in the game.

lolLol

i recall threads with names like 'what is chinese Eve Online server like?" full of stories about "1 huge alliance rules whole universe, RMTs and farms rare independent players"......

I won't speak about goons and RMT but all other "facts" sounds like people speaks about Eve Online 2013....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#59 - 2012-05-30 13:43:14 UTC
You'll have to excuse VV. He's mentally unbalanced.

I'm not sure how he escaped the MD forum, but we're doing our best to get him back there using humane methods.
Thalen Draganos
Nabisco Liberation Collective
#60 - 2012-05-30 13:50:56 UTC
Ned Black wrote:
[quote=Tatjana Braun]

Which is EXACTLY why local should be removed in nullsec. If you are in high risk space then there really should be high risk if you want to do just about anything... not like the current PvE heaven nullspace really is.

What they should do is

Remove local so that the nullbears can actually feel the fear of being ganked... as an added bonus that would fix the AFK cloaker problem as well. Suddenly you would have to fear the active cloaker and not the one that is AFK.
Remove automatic mails about POS/SOV structures being attacked. If you dont have people present that can detect the activity you should be able to sneak around and smash whoever in their faces.
Remove automatic mails about hostile POSes being put in place.

Suddenly you nullbears would have to experience a bit of that risk and no safe place in eve you love to talk about... but for some strange reason you never seem to like any idea that makes YOUR risk any greater... very strange...
.

One thing I think you may have missed is that things like hulkageddon aren't restricted by high sec, low sec, or even null sec. It's an impartial event that everyone everywhere can take part in. Either by doing the killing or doing the exploding. Safety in Eve is no different. Aside from concord to do the bit of policing that it does, It is up to the players to ensure either their own safety or the safety of others regardless of where you are. Local chat is merely a tool that people can use to ensure that safety. So, if you remove it from null sec, you should remove it for every part of space. That way the risk is the same.
Basically, the only difference between high sec, low sec or null sec is the presence of concord, gate/station guns and sec status hits to the players. Otherwise your in the same situation where, regardless of what your doing, you should always be looking over your shoulder or watching local as it were. So don't be stupid and think that the risk is different in any other part of space in any other way than the amount of players in it.